The more I listen to the debate over the Henry Louis Gates/Cambridge Police incident, the more I'm thinking we mighta misread this one initially. At first, when I heard the facts, and read the police report, I thought "damn, we're still having to deal with this nonsense in 09'?" But upon further review, I remembered a few of things. 1) I have a family member (AverageMiddleBrother) who was a faculty member at Harvard for about 3 years. 2) I've been to Cambridge and Boston myself more times than I can count. 3) I'm also a black man.
That said, here are my random observations, in no particular order.
The Neighbor Was Right. Sorta. - Let's face it, this entire ordeal could have been short-circuited had the nosey assed neighbor just asked Gates if he needed some help, rather than overreacting and calling the cops. The area where Gates lives is affluent, very close to campus, and many of the homes there are leased to faculty (as Gates' was, he was on the phone with property management when the cop arrived) by the University. It's not a stretch to assume that he, a nearly 60 year old man with a walking cane and sedan service, just might be a faculty member himself. On the flipside, had some random Negro broken in Gates' house and this very same neighbor stood by and said nothing, Gates woulda been extra pissed upon return. As a guy who's had this sh*t broken into while apathetic neighbors more or less stood by and watched, without bothering to call police, I somewhat admire this woman's sense of community. She just went about it the entirely wrong way.
The Policeman Was Right. Sorta. - The cop was simply doing his job, responding to a report of a shady character trying to barge his way into a house. He shows up, sees Gates inside the house, asks for ID, and upon identifying Gates as a member of faculty, "appears" (based on the police report) to have been trying to leave the scene. Did this cop overreact by eventually arresting Gates after he proved residence? Perhaps. But again, is it such a stretch to ask a person for ID? No assault occurred, Gates didn't get his head busted. He was simply asked to verify his residence. What's really so wrong about that?
Gates Was Right. Sorta. - Here's the thing: Every sensible Black man knows by age 21 that there is a proper way to respond when confronted by the cops. Some of us are taught by our fathers, some of us learn by trial and error, but all of us should know that the man with the gun is going to win 99% of the time. I'd never, ever, ever condone not standing up for yourself when accused of something you didn't do, but that's not exactly the point of contention here. Smart money says to comply with what the cops ask of you, get the badge number (or something that can be used to identify the person), and report them after the fact if they were out of pocket. It's better to live and be wronged than be dead right. It's not fair, but life seldom is. Gates, an academic who's made a living of studying race relations, should definitely have known better. You don't hit a cop with the infamous "do you know who I am?" unless your name is Michael Jordan. You certainly don't help the situation by wailing out "This is happening because I'm a Black Man In America!" Duh, that's obviously true, but it means jack squat to the policeman. Gates should be happy he got away with the minor charge (since dropped) he did, rather than a bullet to the dome. That's usually how these things end.
Cambridge Ain't Boston. - I've read a lot of comments lumping Cambridge in with nearby Boston when it comes to general racial climate. Not true. If there's any such thing as a bastion of elitist liberal America (other than San Fran), it's Cambridge. The small city is extremely ethnically diverse, has a large native black population, a large immigrant population, a black female mayor, and has had several black police commissioners in the past. Anyone who's spent any amount of time knows it's just one river, but several worlds separated from Boston, which is legitimately one of the most offputting and hostile places I've ever personally visited. My brother, who did his postdoctoral studies at there, told me Cambridge (not to be confused with the campus of Harvard, which is yet another world of its own) is one of the most welcoming places he's ever lived. On the same note, he can count on one hand the number of times he ventured into Boston while living there.
Gates Isn't THAT Famous. - There's also a general feeling out there that the neighbor, as well as the policeman, should have known who Gates was, a sentiment echoed by Gates himself. This has to be the most ridiculous comment evar. How well do you actually know all the folks on your block? Do you guys realize that Harvard is literally the Pro Bowl of American academia? Every professor at Harvard is likely world renowned in his/her field. Saying Gates should be recognizable and well known to the general populace in Cambridge is like saying a casual basketball fan should easily be able to point out Michael Redd while watching the NBA All-Star game. Michael Redd is a nice player, but he's hardly the only star in his field. To the neighbor, Gates was probably just some guy she's passed once or twice on the quad. To the cop, Gates was little more than a suspect. Sorry, but this just how it is.
What We Can All Learn From This. - Reality is, in 2009, yes, police brutality still exists. Black men get their heads busted (or worse) erryday. But this case clearly isn't police brutality, and had Gates just exercised a bit more constraint, this whole thing might have been totally avoided. Just a note to anyone pulled over, or otherwise confronted by cops: if you ain't do nothin' wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Shut up, comply, get the badge number, and handle it the reasonable way. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
The Bottom Line - Everyone here overreacted. The neighbor should have asked questions rather than made assumptions. The policeman should have perhaps been more sensitive to the situation and let cooler heads prevail. And Gates definitely shouldn't have pulled the infamous "Do you know who I am?" card. The obvious problem here is that only one of these overreactors could have lost his/her life as a result of this situation. I'll let you all guess who that might have been.
Question: Am I waaaay outta bounds with this, or did Gates perhaps overplay the situation?
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I agree with all your points except number 3 about Gates being wrong. Pulling the do you know who i am card and accusing the cop of racism should not be grounds for arrest. Yes he maybe he should have kept his mouth shut but it seems like you are saying he deserved to get arrested because he expressed his anger at what was happening to him. I think he was genuinely shocked that this could happen to someone like him, and simply forgot the "etiquette" for dealing with the police.
@AB
i'm right there with you on this one AB. there is a whole lot of blame to go around here and i think a lot of people over-reacted initially without having all of the facts of the case.
I don't agree with your view, but I respect it. The only thing I'd point out is that my understanding is that Gates was unable to get the name or badge number of the arresting officer--some reports say that Gates was demanding to see a badge and that was some of the "disorderly conduct" that got him arrested.
I think your are slightly wrong.
If you read Gates account it differs from the police report. Having witnessed a few exchanges in my life, I am willing to assume the truth is in between the 2.
I'm willing to bet the cop wasn't the "most polite" person when Gates refused to go outside initially. I would have refused also.
I'm willing to bet the cop ignored Gates' request for his name and badge number.
I'm willing to bet that Gates continued to ask for the info and got loud when the cop ignored him eventually, following him outside.
My problem with this is that Gates is almost 60. Looks poindexterish. The cop's own report says that he thought Gates was the resident yet his called additional agencies. Way to escalate the situation!
Did both sides probably act badly?? Sure. But just because you "knw" how you "should" act as a Black man with the police, doesn't make it right.
It's great that the neighbor showed concern, but lil short Gates with his cane and limp fits no profile of no one anywhere. Now I know a crook can put on a disguise, but have you seen Gates walk. There's a lil old man swag left, but he couldnt break into an open locker room.
I also don't doubt that Gates may have gotten a little loud. I'm actually surprised no one has really said anything about Gates possibly using his sass. Really, if you've been around the man at any point, you've probably seen it.
As for the police report, vs. Gates report (via theroot.com and Ogletree) there appears to be no reason anywhere that he was actually arrested. unless he started hitting him with the cane. According to Gates report, he was trying to get the badge number and it was never given to him so he followed the cop back out of his house to get it. The police report states the cop gave him the badge number but Gates was too busy yelling at him to hear when he gave it to him. I feel like the truth lies somewhere between the two points, but to say someone's wrong for acting within their rights is a bit overkill. Gates is still a black man and yes, dealing with the police is black man 101...but should it have to be?
Now, as for Cambridge vs. Boston. No, Cambridge is not Boston, but as a student in Cambridge for four years I've dealt with more than enough racism around the Harvard campus. I can't claim it was ever shown by Cambridge police but campus officers, professors and grad students shared more than enough of their prejudices, ignorance and yes racist encounters. No, its not the antebellum south and you will meet many of the most liberal, caring people of all nationalities there, but its not the great picnic people want to make it out to be all the time. Search the Harvard Crimson if you want stories. I understand this wasnt HUPD, but really????
And well Boston is racist on another level of racism. Like general ol town New England racism...not racism masked by academic elitism.
And no Gates isnt that famous. As far as Harvard professors go, he is pretty up there...but really, the average student wouldnt be able to identify most people outside of their areas of study. You're right on that one. I bet there was a good portion of students that couldnt have picked out Larry Summers...and he was president
I have to disagree with you AB. He was in his own house. He can yell at who he wants. At what point did Dr. Gates lose his First Amendment right to freedom of speech? The officer was dead wrong. After he determined that Gates was a resident of the home he should have walked away; he no longer had any legal cause to still be on the property. According to his own police report, he only arrested Gates after people saw Gates yelling at him. Gates was only arrested because he was yelling at a white man in public. This is not a crime.
Dave Chappelle said it best...
http://tiny.cc/gyyL9
It starts at about the 7:50 mark.
I'm disappointed AB. While I agree that everyone is to blame here this sounds like some house slave jibberish. And I truly hate using that term, but really according to your view all blacks should know their place and stay in it, no matter what. Dr. King is turning over in his grave.
On another note...I do think Gates is being a premadonna about all of this. He's talking about devoting his life to studying the intersection of race and criminal justice...oh Skip. I appreciate what he supposedly plans to do, but he spent a few hours in a police interview room, not a maximum security prison. Exhale, Skip, and let it go.
But I love his line... that police officer should look deep into his soul and apologize to me LMAO
I don't have a problem with the neighbor making the call or, for the police for investigating. However, once it was established that it was Gates' house, the police should have left right then and there. No, Let's walk outside, no arrest. THAT is where the cops were wrong.
Just a string of random thoughts...
I tend to agree with the others who think it's inappropriate to suggest that because Dr. Gates didnt follow S.O.P. for black male/cop relations that somehow he screwed up. The man had just gotten back from a flight from China, and was getting harassed in his own home. As soon as the cop saw his i.d., he should have been gone. Period. Gates got justifiably pissed, the officer felt his authority was being undermined, so made up a charge. Happens every day.
I honestly don't understand how an old man getting an attitude with a cop on his own porch, justifies the multiple police officers I see in his perp walk. You'da thought they were bringing out Tony Montana or something.
My take on things:
The neighbor did nothing wrong. She saw two men outside of Gates' home trying to get in the back door. I'd be grateful she called the cops.
The cop was fine until he was trying not to give out his name and badge number. The arrest made it clear he was on a power trip. He f*cked up.
Gates did nothing wrong. Overreacted, yeah I'd agree. Throwing out "this is happening because I'm black" just made things tense and put the cop on the defensive. The guy was just doing his job. But people should be allowed to get angry even when it isn't warranted.
And Gates ain't that famous. I only heard of him when he did a PBS special last year for Black History Month.
Yeah AB, I have to disagree with your take on this somewhat. Gates stated that the facts laid out in the police report were not accurate. So we don't really know if he inquired about the police officer's mother or yelled something about do you know who I am. =)
All we know is that once the police officer determined that there was no break-in and that Gates was the owner (renter) of the home the interaction should have come to an end. Certainly there should not have been an arrest.
A man's (woman's) home is his castle. Gates was under no obligation to show deference to some cop that wouldn't leave. As others mentioned the arrest was just the cop trying to one up Gates. Why would it have been so difficult for the cop to profusely apologize and explain that he was just following up on a (mistaken) call.
I think you're right AB. And I also think there was a class issue involved. Gates has always seemed sort of snooty to me and I can see how that would annoy a cop (black or white) just doing his job.
But, cops can be fucking assholes. Excuse my French. I've had run-ins with white cops with my white friends and they've been rude, threatened us, pre-judged us, and said we were guilty when they didn't know if we were or not (we weren't.)
Let's face it- every time you see a cop while driving you take your foot off the gas because you don't want to get pulled over. They seem to be ignorant to society's annoyance and hatred of them. My Waspy, CT house-wife mother-in-law is famous for hating cops with a passion. If I were black and I'd made my way to the top like Gates I'd be ready to yell at a cop too.
Every precinct should have a P.R. person to work on cops' image in the eyes of citizens. ESPECIALLY in minority communities where stories abound of dictatorial thug cops. It's the police force's job to work on their image in society.
Black men know there's a certain way we have to deal with The Law, whether we like it or not. When an officer rolls up on me, I keep it as short as possible, and do what I gotta do. Even if they come up in MY HOUSE, I still won't talk crazy to them; it aint being a house nigga; it's wanting to be able to live to see another day. Hate that it has to be like that, but that's part of the dynamic of Black man-police relations in America.
@AB
OUT-Freaking-Standing!!! Extremely well said.
@ MusicLover
I'm definitely NOT saying he deserved to be arrested. But he was arrested for mouthing off, not the initial offense (B&E) that he was suspected of. Call me crazy, but something says that had he been quiet, we would never have heard of this.
@ Julia
There are many other ways of identifying an officer than just the badge number. Simply getting the person's name, general visual description, and squad car number would have been enough. Cambridge is not a very big town. Chances are, had he filed a report with only limited information, the cop in question could have been identified.
@ Kim
Gates was arrested for "disorderly conduct after exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior". This is code for "The Negro had no idea when to shut up". It's not fair, and most cases of this sort are usually thrown out of court, but it certainly was avoidable. Need I remind you once more that cops have guns and can use them at their discretion, usually without any circumstances.
Agreed about city of Cambridge vs walled-off Harvard U. Different worlds indeed. I even noticed this in my very brief walks around campus. I thought I drew enough of a distinction in my post between the two, but hope this clarifies.
@ MsNegro
Gates was only arrested because he was yelling at a white man in public. This is not a crime.
Sadly, this is a crime, to be metered out at any cop's discretion. Go outside right now and start yelling/poppin' sh*t at the first cop you see. Your 1st Amendment rights will be the last thing on his mind as he slaps on the cuffs. You gotta know when to pick your battles. When a guy is wielding a baton is not such a time.
@ DCBred
I'm disappointed AB. While I agree that everyone is to blame here this sounds like some house slave jibberish. And I truly hate using that term, but really according to your view all blacks should know their place and stay in it, no matter what. Dr. King is turning over in his grave.
How is picking the right battles "slave jibberish"? Seriously, how is calling a cop racist and getting confrontational solving anything? The cop wasn't threatening to arrest him for the B&E, nor was he physically harming Gates at any point in time. If Gates felt the cop was being racist and disrespectful, what good to trying to prove this point to a man with a loaded weapon and nothing to lose make? Again, pick you battles. Filing a formal complaint would have sent a far bigger message to this cop than simply calling him racist. Is the cop less likely to harbor racist feelings if he's "called" a racist, or if he's written up and faces disciplinary action? Again, pick your battles.
Even you admitted "Gates is being a premadonna about all of this". How then does it make me a "house slave" for saying essentially the same thing? That don't add up, mane.
@ Jay
The fact that Gates was just returning from a long trip to China has nothing to do with anything here. Cops don't give a crap if you've had a bad day.
The perp walk was unnecessary, but then again, this whole story ending the way it was is unnecessary.
@ Shady/Ezra
The cop definitely could have been a Grade A azzhole. Still, by virtue of his title (and gun), he has the upper hand. You. Can. Not. Win. A. Debate. With. A. Cop. Again, if you want to send the message, do so through proper channels.
I'm shocked that so many people are giving Gates the benefit of the doubt, but wouldn't extend this same gesture to the typical street cat had the same situation played itself out. Talking back to the cops is talking back to the cops, and if you're smart, you realize how much of a losing proposition that is from the jump.
@ SoulOnIce/CJames
Thank you, my fellow house slaves, for injecting some reality into this situation.
AB, I think you're wrong for a few reasons:
#1 Gates should have just complied with the officer's request and showed his ID. He could have gotten the officer's badge number and filed a complaint later. Except THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE DID! The officer refused to give his information.
#2 Just because the police are known to be a little extra hostile to black men doesn't mean that black men don't have their right to free speech. Gates probably overreacted. So? He was in his own home and he should have been offered an apology right then and there. (Sorry, Mr. Gates for the inconvenience. Enjoy the rest of your day.)
#3 The neighbor didn't need to recognize Gates because he was famous. She should have recognized him as her neighbor. She didn't. Her bad.
Nothing is wrong with the cop asking Skip Gates to show ID. It's procedure. What was wrong was his failure to apologize for the inconvenience and leave the man the hell alone in his own house. What was wrong was his failure to immediately leave. What was wrong was his criminalizing Gates' understandably irate reaction.
AB, I've been thinking sort of the same thing and your post clinched it for me.
I think the police probably were jerks, but it really is starting to sound like he was being a jerk too with the whole "Do you know who I am?" thing - it seems quite possible that a white dude pulling the same self-important act and then throwing a tantrum would have received the same treatment.
Sorry AB, if we believe Gates' account
http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,1&auto=true
I just can't see where he did anything wrong. There is that item about the question the cop asked that Gates refused to answer, but at that point the cop already had verified that there was nothing criminal going on. All Gates did (according to him) is ask for the officer's name and badge number.
It is one thing to keep your feelings about the police to yourself when you really were driving a tad over the limit or changing lanes without signals or carrying an open beer or any other infraction or crime where the cop is in the right, no matter how much of a jerk s/he may be about it. I would always advise extreme caution and respect when dealing with police.
But Gates was in the right here. He was in his own house and had every right to ask for the officer's identifying information. If a man can't even ask for a officer's badge number and id, he might as well give up his citizenship rights.
Everyone is different. Gates could well be one of those people that would be MORE bothered by NOT standing up for himself when this event took place, than risking possible arrest or other negative things.
@ Shady
"But Gates was in the right here. He was in his own house and had every right to ask for the officer's identifying information. If a man can't even ask for a officer's badge number and id, he might as well give up his citizenship rights.
Everyone is different. Gates could well be one of those people that would be MORE bothered by NOT standing up for himself when this event took place, than risking possible arrest or other negative things."
We can certainly agree on that much. Gates at age 60 is more apt to feel a need to take a stand than a 35 year old man with 2 young kids who is the sole breadwinner for his family. That's not to say the 35 year old wouldn't be equally bothered, but maybe he'd weigh the risk of getting shot and killed over something mostly trivial moreso than an older guy who's lived much of his life already and has less to lose would. Personal PoV plays a factor in how you'd approach this matter, and I'm with you on that.
I'm not making HLG to be some super human, or even super negro. I would bet he did say something to provoke the officer, but point remains, there was no legal basis on which to arrest him. So calling him wrong period (or anybody who finds themselves in this situation), is wrong in my opinion. But we can agree to disagree on that one.
Ware Street (where Gates home is) is essentially on Harvard's camp us (all of a block away) and is still in the cocoon of Harvard's world. Its still a ways off from Lesley College..(the Cambridge school that gets no love and no shine), and under the Crimson influence. On further thought, on top of racial attitudes there may have been some school/town animosity at play as well. Ogletree's report does state that HUPD was called and if I was a town cop, I'd hate to have to deal with some campus popo everytime something went down. Still dont make it right.
(random @AB tho...Cambridge does have tons of immigrants and some of the best Vietnamese, Indian and Thai food you will find outside of Asia. I'm also pretty sure thats the only place where you find masses of Eritreans and Cape Verdeans...a lot of whom end up working for Harvard or MIT)
@AB
You're arguing that because he's black, he should have known his place and kept quiet. You left the "he's a black man" part out of your discussions in the comments but it's right there in your post. It's one thing to say all people should show deference, it's another to say black men should. Police do have guns, does that make it wrong for a black man (or anyone) to question their authority? Crazy maybe, but not wrong. You frame it as if we should have all be thankful the police don't just shoot us whenever they feel like. I'm not ok with allowing police to have that power. And in fact, according to the law, they don't. When things happen, they should be evaluated and if necessary, police should be held accountable. Does that happen every time? No. But that doesn't mean we should assume that someone should fall in line and if they don't, they're automatically in the wrong and the police gets to walk away scott- free.
Again, I do think Gates is overreacting but that doesn't mean he should shut up just because he's a black man. He should shut up about it because it's over and done with. He's acting like he just discovered that he was a black man living in America. I'm pretty sure this didn't really rock his world all that much... and if it did ruffle his feathers, he probably needed to be knocked down a few notches.
The other thing I meant to write was that if the officer HAD just provided his badge number and id, perhaps Gates would have filed a complaint, perhaps not. But what a silly complaint it would have been. "I didn't like the way the officer spoke to me"?
Get in line...
By arresting Gates on a bs charge the officer guaranteed worse publicity for the department and really did give Gates serious grounds for complaint.
I hear you on the POV thing AB..
PS-- Didn't and would never call you or anyone else a house slave so please don't put words in my mouth.
My take AB is that you are assuming that everything in the police officer’s report is accurate. The assumption is that Professor Gates refused to show his ID to a police officer was acting in a disorderly manner. The problem with that assumption is none of us were they to witness what actually took place. How many times have a black man got shot by the police and the report is whitewashed to clear the officer? Also if you take a look at Professor Gates he doesn’t exactly fit the bill of burglar. You have to wonder why the police just couldn’t use some soft skills and defuse the situation just as quick and easily. Yes I know by a certain age that all black men should have the knowledge of dealing with police but getting constantly punked by cops without standing up for you rights in not being a man either. Also being cordial and polite with a police officer is no guarantee that they want still act bully and harass you. Yes there are times to pick battles but as long as you keep subjugating your rights we will never have equality we continue to be second class citizens.
Getting back to the neighbor. You would think you are at least on hand waving terms with your neighbor and he or she would recognize you and not resort to calling the police. I have lived in my current home in a middle class mainly white neighborhood for about 4 years and have several neighbors that I have never spoken to. On occasions I tried to flash a friendly smile or wave but they basically seem like they didn’t want to speak. I could imagine if the same situation happened to me and I needed to get into my house one of these folks probably would do the same thing. I don’t even jog in the neighborhood out of our fear that one of these suspicious neighbors would call the police and say they see a black man (dress abet in Under Amour and running shoes) running in their neighborhood.
Um, I think your wrong. Kinda.
While I agree with the assessment, I think placing the onus on Gates simply because he chose to follow the unwritten code of law is some borderline house Negro nonsense.
As I said in Black Snob's guest post, I think its unfair that we're placed in a position to choose whether to live to see the next day or challenge an inbred system that we know is blatantly wrong. To go deeper, however, the issue this raises for me is how many times has this officer or any officer walked up on a burglary in progress and it was actually a burglary in progress. How often do cops, black or white, actually roll up on young black men, and they either cut and run, or are really caught doing something illegal? All of that compared with those of us who are fine upstanding citizens.
Gates, in my opinion is to be lauded for his courage and ability to say something. I agree, if he had kept his mouth shut we wouldn't have heard anything. Hell, he may have been apt to write on TheRoot.com about how far we really have progressed in this country. But that didn't happen. I think its tell tale the officer waited until Gates was on the porch to arrest him, rather than do it in his house. Had Gates been quiet, how else could we point out this behavior and attempt to correct it.
The sad thing is that too often we're forced to gamble, praying that our non-silence isn't going to result in a bullet in the back.
But seriously AB, and to the rest of everyone else, its frustrating the lengths that many of us go to be silent in the face of daily injustices that we see in all forms in the work place at our churches in the form of racism, sexism and other random forms of discrimination. I think when the shoe is on the other foot, we'll all be wishing that someone wasn't silent on our behalf when we have been silent on others.
The complacency is killing us and the neutrality is numbing us--its been time that we break the silence.
I'd have to say that yeah, Gates should have known the drill for Black man/police interaction. To that extent I can co-sign AB.
But I do agree with those who are saying that it's a bit of a "cop-out" (!) to say that he was out of line because he should have know the drill when it's a problem in itself that this drill even exists. I like this take on the issue, which is somewhat in the vein of the uppity negro's conclusign point: http://tinyurl.com/knx6x8.
To follow up on what Kim said about the Harvard context, Google the "Quad incident." It's certainly not always a picnic...even at a picnic. This was the first thing that came to my mind when I heard what happened with Gates. And if Kim's correct and he does live in an area that within the Harvard bubble, it's quite possible that the standard Harvard dynamics may have been at play.
As for the diversity of the city itself, don't let the ethnic restaurants in the Squares fool ya, it ain't that diverse: http://tinyurl.com/km67t5 (pp. 15-16). I would have sworn that Somerville was the most racially diverse city in the country based on the neighborhood where I lived (right outside of Union Square), but it actually has a larger White population (and smaller Black, Latino, and Asian populations) than Cambridge.
Personally, in the year that I was in Cambridge (and Somerville), I didn't experience any racial animosity, so I suspect that your brother's observations are correct in general. However, I don't think that the ethnic diversity of Cambridge establishes a prima facie case in its favor. In my higher education experiences, having a large native Black population and a Black mayor (Tallahassee and New Haven [the latter lacking the Black mayor]), has little to do either way with the level of racial tension. The same can be said of the area's liberalism (see, e.g., New York Magazine's article about Martha's Vineyard).
@uppity
You're a young man talking. And what you're saying has plenty of merit. In my older age I have learned that I can't debate with a person who has a gun. I jsut can't. I have nothing to gain.
You have to use the proper channels in this situation. Mr. Gates is able to get away with not using the proper channels because he's slightly famous. Had it been me or you, no one would have heard about it.
Agree with all points except that (1) Gates was in the wrong for expressing his frustration with the cop, and (2) slight dissent on that fact that Gates is not that famous.
Regarding point (1), I see your further commentary cleared up any confusion as to whether you think Gates should have been arrested (you don't agree he should have) so we're in agreement on that. We only depart on whether or not he should have expressed his frustration to the cops. You make a compelling argument about cops and guns, but at the same time, sometimes you have to speak up for yourself. As black men, we know this all too well.
Regarding point (2) that Gates is not famous. Skip Gates? Not famous??? I'll concede that Gates is not that famous...to white cops in Cambridge. He may not have appeared in the Matrix trilogy like Cornell West but the man is pretty well known.
@ DCBred
You'll need to show me where I stated that he should have "known his place and kept quiet". There's nothing wrong with speaking up for yourself and representing your side of a story. I'm not sure how you jumped from my post to this sort of broad assumption. I hate to sound like a walking cliche, but a few of my good friends are cops, so maybe I'm trying extra hard to see both sides of the story here. Few cops are so blatantly ignorant that they won't listen to sound rationale. The key word here is "sound". Calling a guy a racist and arrogantly questioning whether or not that person "knows who you are" is just inviting trouble. The guy didn't book Gates for the burglary after all.
"I'm disappointed AB. While I agree that everyone is to blame here this sounds like some house slave jibberish."
I'm not trippin' off the house slave thing, believe me, I've been called far worse, but please explain how anyone else would read this comment that you posted earlier and assume otherwise?
@ Wave
We're also making an equal assumption that everything Gates is saying is the gospel, no? Reality is, as we both agree, the truth falls somewhere in the middle. But can we not simply agree that Gates probably contributed to the arrest based on his response to the cop?
I totally concur about the "neighbors" part. I live in a similar neighborhood and since I'm from the South, I naively think everyone's gonna be all "Mayberry" like the hood' I grew up in. Times have changed, folks (black and white) aren't as neighborly as they used to be. I speak to everyone (it's just my nature) and they usually speak back, but it's unrealistic to expect everyone in this day and age to know every neighbor by face. As a guy who works community watch, you typically call the cops first and ask questions later if you see something waaay outta pocket, unless the homeowner has otherwise indicated they want to be contacted if something is fishy outside. Not saying Gates' neighbor was acting in this capacity, but again, he wasn't arrested for burglary.
@ Uppity
"But seriously AB, and to the rest of everyone else, its frustrating the lengths that many of us go to be silent in the face of daily injustices that we see in all forms in the work place at our churches in the form of racism, sexism and other random forms of discrimination. The complacency is killing us and the neutrality is numbing us--its been time that we break the silence."
There's a big difference between the other forms of injustice that you mention and Gates'. His involved a policeman, who could kill you. Workplace injustices, getting chased around a store in the mall, etc are inherently different. This isn't apples and apples, not when the risk of being murdered is in play. Again, had this ended in Gates being killed by an overzealous cop, what exactly would this have solved? It was a basic case of mistaken identity, one that was easily rectified by simply presenting ID. That is the main point here, and regardless of whose accounts we read, it seems to be consistent.
Maybe this is something I'm naturally gonna have a different spin on given my upbringing. I grew up in a Southern town where police would routinely get their Bull Connor on and knock Negroes upside the skull. Given my Dad's profession, I had it drilled into my head that it's better to live and get back at folks using the proper channels than get yourself f*cked up for essentially nothing. If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to be worried about. Are there exceptions to this rule? Sure. But more times than not, that cop simply wants to go home to his family just like you do. Play it safe, and everyone walks away safely.
WhiteinAmerica.?????????
WhiteInAmerica is a troll, folks. Don't give him any attention, and don't allow him to derail the convo. I am going to let his ignorant comment stay on the boards in perpetuity, just to show how low some will stoop to get their feeble, poorly worded opinons heard. Ignore him.
We not return to our regularly scheduled program, already in progres...
Question then for AB:
Tweaking the facts slightly, would you still contend that Gates was in the wrong if he had been shot instead of arrested?
@ The Janitor
We can't play this as a what if. Sorry, we just can't. Reality is, had Gates been shot, at age 60, he likely wouldn't be around to tell his version of the story.
@AB and CJames
**folds arms and pouts**
Meh.
Life's not fair.
But why are we trying to figure out a way to survive in an injust system rather than trying to fight to change it or at least attempt to level the playing field. I wouldn't have a problem playing the Michael Clark Duncan Green Mile role if I knew it was for some greater good. In the light from which I hear many that tell young black men how to act with the police is for the simple fact of going along to get along. Yes, I know the "one who lives to fight another day" is most certainly a positive, but not unless someone else presents an alternative, I'm not persuaded that being submissive in this whole ordeal is ultimately best for race relations and for me as a black male in this country.
I didn't want to use this analogy from the onset, but it appears that some form of martyrdom is needed in order to get the point across--rather some sort of self-sacrifice. Granted its 2009 and we're the generation of "I have mine, now you get yours" and even for YBP's we know the value of hard work and getting and keeping what we worked for--yeah, great Republican ideals aint they?--and we don't want to give all of that up just for a traffic stop or even the case with Skip here. BUT, fact of the matter is that we stand on the shoulders of many African Americans--famous such as a Medgar Evers, the Little Rock Nine, Ruby Bridges, Fannie Lou Hamer and hundreds of individuals who lost their jobs in the small towns and faced Night Riders just so we could reap the benefits.
Honestly, no offense to you two, but I think it's an indictment on our generation to approach this situation with the mentality that you have. We don't want to give up anything that we have--neither do I, but some level of sacrificed is required. While it's clear that the racial profiling and police brutality of the day is a sad reality of life, I think an even starker reality is that freedom isn't really free; it's paid for with the blood, sweat, tears and lives of many people who simply hoped for a better day.
I say all in this in brotherly love, no hard cyber feelings. ;-)
@ Uppity
Uhhh, s'cuse me, but wasn't Sean Bell a "martyr"? Timothy Thomas? Rodney King (even if he thankfully didn't die)? Negroes have been dying at the hands of cops for years. Surprise! Negroes are still dying at the hands of cops.
I don't have the answer for this, but I can pretty much assure you that more Negroes dying at the hands of cops won't be the fix. Isn't that essentially the same "grand gesture will cure it all" thought that those who praised Obama's ascent as "postracial" bought into?
Fighting to survive in an injust system can be partially accomplished in many ways. More strident background checks when hiring cops. Less allowing cops to 'hide behind a badge'. More accountable police chiefs. Teaching our kids how to properly respond when stopped. Etc. But I don't see more black men (especially a guy like Skip Gates) getting effed' up as any sort of reasonable solution.
Some things in life (ie: my wife, kids, and well, that's about it) are worthy of "risking it all for". A douchebag cop with an attitude talking sternly to me is not one of them.
Again, perspective young grasshopper. Perspective.
@uppity
Well stated. and Point taken. Agreed. Somebody has to take the fall otherwise no changes will ever be made.
It's just like music, for every "Pretty Wings" you need a "Stanky leg".
***ANOTHER BAD ANALOGY!**
AB - I completely agree with you!
@AB
I hedged the statement by saying I agree with parts of your statement; if I were referring to you as a house slave because I your views, then wouldn't I also be one?
When I said "this," I was referring to your comment on Gates' actions in light of him being a black man in a white dominated world (which I then went on to explain)-- just as @uppity was. I prefer logical reason and it would make no sense to attack the person rather than the argument. Just because I disagree with one view in the post doesn't mean I feel the need to personally attack you. I'm a writer as well, I know how it is.
@AB
Well, I would make the argument that somehow, someway, that because of the violence inflicted on blacks in our own apartheid in America, change did come. I'm not saying it's pretty, and of course the question is what am I gonna do when that violence comes to my own family or comes to my set of friends.
Perspective or not, I don't think anyone would admit that "go along to get along" for the sake of one's life, job or even family ever affected real long lasting change. However, I will say that I am thankful that we do live in a country where you have that option--so to speak.
@cjames
you agree with me?!?!?!!?
I'm SHOCKED and APPALLED!!! LOL
Uppity
"why are we trying to figure out a way to survive in an injust system rather than trying to fight to change it or at least attempt to level the playing field."
Great question I wonder why we don't ask ourselves this question more often. Basically its just about surviving and living as a second class citizen. Maybe more law abiding blacks need to get concealed carry permits (in those non-socialist states that allow them lol) which might make rouge police think twice infringing rights and acting like. Black gun ownership and CCPs I guess that is certainly a whole another topic of debate.
@wave
Try inserting that statement in a sermon at an all black church and you'll see who the fight is really with: ourselves.
I'm not asserting that "go along to get along" mindsets are the results of some racial brainwashing, as some may say, but I'm more saying that it's a product of our culture. Whether we want to hear it or not, we have actually come a LONG way. I hope I'm not jumping, but the author of this blog has made it clear that he's a professional, and I'm sure he lives in a neighborhood that's mixed--that wasn't possible in DC and surrounding suburbs most def 40 years ago--and he's not the only one. Just with this blog and commenters alone, is evidence that we live in AMERICA.
By the same token, we still have "loads to lift." I think once we realise that we're in a fight together and do away with some of the elitism of "I've got mine, now you get yours" that a lot of us suffer from, then we'll begin to view ourselves as members of a community.
I think the individualistic mindset is also eating away. I have a professor who was moved to tears speaking of his now deceased wife of 23 years. He had asked her since she had made a sacrifice for his schooling as to whether or not she supported him in doing doctoral work, and he said her response was "Of course because I know our people will benefit from it."
If more of us had that mindset, perhaps I wouldn't be quite as disillusioned on the dawn of the 21st century.
If Gates just got back from traveling to China no wonder the man is cranky...hours and hours on a plane, luggage, and having to use a cane to boot!!! Sorry, older folks using a cane may get cranky after a long day of worldwide travel!!!
Even if Gates (who I have never heard of, honestly) got uppity with the cop he should have left the house immediately. It's like tazering the 72 year old woman just because she dares the cop to. These folks were not threatening...just old and cranky. The police are trained to deal with many situations. Learn to deal with the oldsters 'cause they're living longer now!!
Seriously, if I was Gates I would have been one cranky bitch. I would have questioned the police officer and I would have been handcuffed and charged as well. I hope when I'm older I don't take any shit from the police either.
And damn his neighbor. I would be leaving a flaming turd on her steps. Get to know your neighbor, lady!!!
@ AB:
LOL I understand that, at age 60, Gates likely would not have survived a gun shot, but that's not what I'm getting at.
You stated above that the cop was simply doing his job, and "perhaps" overreacted by eventually arresting Gates after Gates proved his residence.
You also make it clear that cops have guns and we would all do well to remember that fact in these types of situations.
I'm just wondering if your contention that the cop "perhaps" overreacted would change to a "definitely" overreacted if he shot Gates instead of just arresting him. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you would probably agree that that level of police response is going to far. (correct me if I'm wrong) A lower level of police response, such as arresting the man, by your view, is "perhaps" too far but not necessarily. Others may disagree and say that even that is too far.
Thus my bottom line question to you is, objectively speaking, what is the appropriate level of police response given these facts and did this cop cross it?
Everyone involved could have behaved differently. This is an example of how far we really have come...no where near where we need to be.
We can't erase our Blackness, ever. Until that day arrives when we don't have to think before we speak or act, we must. There is no cushion for Black people. This being known, no one especially a Black person should feed the flames of racism. You know what's required to survive, do it.
I still don't think Gates is a house known name, not among the younger generation especially. And certainly not among non minorities.
There is no 'winning' or last word' among cops. Should the white officers take more heat for some reason, than the black cop 2 feet away from the poch? I think not. His silence is deafening.
It's not unusual not to know your neighbor or co-workers. In my diverse population I know 2 neighbors, but not well enough to identify them in a photo or pick them out of a line up. Having worked in a large corporate company it was the norn not to know most people. You know who you work side by side with or near, Harvard is huge no reason to know him. My daughters highschool has 3,000 students, she 'knows' the few that share classes with her down through the years.
Picking your battles.
Yes. We are better off than we were 40 years ago. But are we better off than we were 10 years ago? 15? I'm not sure.
In the same year that Obama was elected president, a movie called Gran Torino was nominated for award for essentially saying that racial epithets mean nothing in post-racial America, that racial epithets are NOT a reliable sign of attitude and associated behaviors.
Obama's election is representative of freedom. Our children are TRULY free to be anything they want to be. No longer do black parents have to wonder if they are lying when they tell their child, "Yes, you could be president one day."
Equality will something we will always have to work for--and that will involve sacrifice. "Pick your battles?" Should one only choose to fight at work when one's personal wealth is at stake? Should one only choose to fight if one of our brothers is dead? Or should we choose to fight when things are not equal but should be--just as Skip Gates did?
Even if there was a class issue, partially created by Gates ("Do you know who I am?")he should be allowed to have the SAME class issues as the average rich white man WITHOUT being arrested in his own home...after its been established it IS his home?
In my mind, reaching for equality in 2009 means I SHOULD demand a white cop's badge number and HOPE he arrests me so that white people CAN SEE that we are NOT living in post-racial America...regardless of the skin color of the president. And it is whites, (69% of the population) whose denial must be broken. After all, we don't do step out of line to demonstrate racism still exists (and still has significant effect) to one another, do we?
And who better to step forward and take one for the-team-who-desires-equality (not just subservient peace) than a short, affluent, middle-aged, famous-enough-to-get-his-name-in-the-paper black man with a cane? In 2009, pick-your-battles shouldn't mean waiting for blood and beatings to step forward. I can only hope that age will bring me the courage to force a white cops real attitude out into the open....so that the children that come along behind me won't have to know how a black man is supposed to act when confronted by a white police officer in his own home.
Picking your battles.(Corrected)
Yes. We are better off than we were 40 years ago. But are we better off than we were 10 years ago? 15? I'm not sure.
In the same year that Obama was elected president, a movie called Gran Torino was nominated for award for essentially saying that racial epithets mean nothing in post-racial America, that racial epithets are NOT a reliable sign of attitude and associated behaviors.
Obama's election is representative of freedom. Our children are TRULY free to be anything they want to be. No longer do black parents have to wonder if they are lying when they tell their child, "Yes, you could be president one day."
Equality will be something we will always have to work for (unlike other lighter-skinned groups who can nd have disappeared into the majority population)--and that will involve sacrifice.
"Pick your battles?"
Should one only choose to fight at work when one's personal wealth is at stake? Should one only choose to fight if one of our brothers is dead? Or should we choose to fight when things are not equal but should be--just as Skip Gates did?
Even if there was a class issue, partially created by Gates ("Do you know who I am?")he should be allowed to have the SAME class issues as the average rich white man WITHOUT being arrested in his own home...after its been established it IS his home?
In my mind, reaching for equality in 2009 means I SHOULD demand a white cop's badge number and HOPE he arrests me so that white people CAN SEE that we are NOT living in post-racial America...regardless of the skin color of the president. And it is whites, (69% of the population) whose denial must be broken. After all, we don't do step out of line to demonstrate racism still exists (and still has significant effect) to one another, do we?
And who better to step forward and take one for the-team-who-desires-equality (not just subservient peace) than a short, affluent, middle-aged, famous-enough-to-get-his-name-in-the-paper black man with a cane? In 2009, "pick your battles" shouldn't mean waiting for blood and beatings to step forward. I can only hope that age will bring me the courage to force a white cop's real attitude out into the open....so that the children that come along behind me won't have to know how a black man is SUPPOSED TO act when confronted by a white police officer in his own home.
I wonder: Is Cambridge really worlds apart from Boston? Things may have changed drastically in the two decades since I lived there. But as I recall, many who work in the city (esp. in non-"professional" positions) are from the same neighborhoods in metro Boston known for being so openly hostile to POC.
"Liberalism" n a community is no guarantee for lack of bias and racism. In fact, there may be a certain tipping point where "too many" POC are seen as being successful and this can breed resentment.
hi ,When an officer rolls up on me, I keep it as short as possible, and do what I gotta do. Even if they come up in MY HOUSE, I still won't talk crazy to them; it aint being a house nigga; it's wanting to be able to live to see another day. Hate that it has to be like that, but that's part of the dynamic of Black man-police relations in America.
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Well, Obama called the policeman's action "stupid", even though he claims to know Gates, be biased, and not know all the facts.
Because that's what a real statesman does... insult a cop without knowing the story because something bad happened to a friend.
Stay classy, Obama! I love that he used stronger and more blunt language against a Cambridge cop than against the mullahs greenlighting the murder of pro-freedom protesters in Iran.
I wished the Pres. had stopped after he admitted he didn't have all the facts.
We just have no idea of what really happened.
The Pres. Should not publicly voice his opinion in either direction.
Admitting that Gates was his friend was enough. Once upon a time so was Jeremiah Wright...
Holy crap! The mother of all "new wrinkles" has just been added to this mess.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_arresting_officer
Great article and great perspective.
I'm from the south. the ole south. deep south...
Guess i grew up where a fella (white or black) knows how to respect the law, and knows how to respect another individual.
My thought was if Mr Gates had treated me (as he treated the officer - - - "do you know who I am?" - - stupid sh*t statement clearly intended to incite anger, well, hell - - I'd have to punch the brothas lights out. no need to treat a man that way, just cause you the uppity professor of whatever cause at Harverd.
I learned early on - you show respect to the man of the law. Don't matter what he thinks or how he feels or how you feel. it really doesn't. You are stupid, flat stupid, to talk smack to the police. Doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. it is stupid. They see EVERYBODY as a suspect. which is their job.
If you are a suspect (which you are by virtue of INTERACTING with a policeman), and you start talking smack?? then you're PROBABLY at fault.
so, mr Professor of STUPID, don't be talking smack.
I gotta say, I like the cop. I've been stopped at night, suspected of something. and by all rights, shoulda been really questioned: single man, young twenty's, driving a car not registered to him or his family. at night. out of town. driving fast. yeah, I shoulda been REALLY questioned... what happened?? I RESPECTED THE MAN. Respect dude. learn it.
problem I see?? Professor numbnuts ain't ever been taught to respect the man. plain and simple, thats the truth
A couple of weeks ago I was arrested on weird charges, which were dropped the next day. I was walking home at night with my husband when a female police officer rode by on her police horse and I said to my husband: 'hey, look a horse', because we don't get to see that many police horses anymore in this city. The officer felt that I had called her a horse. There was absolutely no way I could convince her that I had called the horse a horse and I had to spent the night in jail. The next day another officer let me go and let me know that all the charges were dropped and they were sorry.
I felt then, as I feel with the case of Gates, that we - the officer and me - had gotten to a point where she knew she had nothing on me, but did not want to lose face and go back on her initial response. The difference being that I did not have to fear any possible bodily harm as Gates did.
In a way I think he was right, but it would have been easier to just comply and just go through all the motions, ridiculous as they may seem when you know you're in the right.
In the interview I read with Gates on The Daily Beast he didn't call the cop a racist, but stated that the cop in question had used racial profiling and then couldn't let go of the narrative that comes with that. I think he is right in that mainly because of what he said about having a narrative in your head and not being able to leave that narrative as facts arise that contradict your view of the situation. I think that's something we encounter on a regular basis.
@ Wilma:
WHAT?!?!?!
Please tell me you're kidding.
Let me get this straight---a cop was riding a horse, you said "Look at that horse," and the cop thought you meant HER?! And you went to JAIL?!
That's....unfathomable. I'm not even kidding.
I'm not kidding.
But for full disclosure: After she stopped me for thinking I had called her a horse I had to do a sobriety test which I failed as I knew I would because of a car accident I had when I was 13. I'm not very good with balancing and walking really straight. I told her I would fail her test and why I would fail her test, as did my husband, but she was pretty short-tempered to begin with so I was arrested and had to get the level of alcohol in my body tested at the station. As I never drink anything alcoholic I passed that. But by that time the paper work took so long that I ended up spending 5 hours in a police cell.
I think that not passing the sobriety test was what gave her a way out of a very silly situation.
It got me thinking that we leave the enforcement of our laws up to people who are just as capable as you and me of having a really, really bad day and that therefor enforcing the law can be pretty idiosyncratic.
Probably the most obvious sign the judicial system and law enforcement is messed up is that the Department of Justice is blatantly lying about the racial composition of drug-related prison data:
http://www.tremblethedevil.com/my_weblog/2009/04/even-without-lies-the-damage-is-already-done.html
Urgh; after reading the police report as acquired by Smoking Gun, ole boy Skip had it coming.
ASSUMING the officer's report is truthful, if Gates was being that belligerent outside with a crowd of folk looking on, the officer has to arrest him. This is a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't, Kobyashi Maru scenario. If you arrest Gates, the race issue rears it's head. If you don't, he becomes another celebrity who gets a different brand of justice than us regular folks.
I'm still troubled with Gates' behavior, though. He abandoned completely everything all people are taught to do around police officers , it seems.
I mean damn, if he really said "I'll talk to your mamma outside!"? Was he trying to bait this cop into something stupid?
Trying to suspend the benefit of hindsight, If I lived in an exclusive neighborhood and tried to force open my door, I would joke with my partner, "you know if someone saw us they're callin' the cops!" When the cops show up I'd be almost falling over in laughter about my macabre prediction. I would hope that my behavior would de-escalate the cops who'd probably be wired up. Like with my students I can diffuse many situations with a smile and humor; ultimately remaining calm and not succumbing to anger keeps me in control, allowing me to control the situation.
Wow!! I never thought that this will be such a big news. It went from Gates arrest to Obama apalogy. This has become more interesting than what I thought. So, I collected all the sites or articles (more than 250 sites or articles) related to this hot topic "Cambridge Police Unit Demands Apology from Obama". If you are interested take a look at news, video coverage, people views and reviews on this topic at the below link.
http://markthispage.blogspot.com/2009/07/all-about-cambridge-police-unit-demands.html
This is hysterically funny. HLG got arrested. Mr. Near White Man got ARRESTED. Mr. "I don't care if I do offend black scholars or black people" got arrested! This man is the closest thing to an honorary white man on the Harvard campus as any Negro can get. He does not hestitate to insult black people, nor to appeal to whites by letting them know he is closer to one of them than to the black people of the black culture he is in charge of studying. When answering whites who have consistently and overwhelmingly labeled him "racist" since the unveiling of this debacle he said something akin to, "I am not some black nationalist who yells "racist' at every turn. I am 56% white. My father is 75% white. My wife is white. My children are majority white..." The white cop accused Gates of being offensive on this one occasion. However, he is routinely offensive to black people. This Negro has to prove himself to whites by putting down black nationalists - by presenting his whiteness as proof of his willingnesss to betray black culture. Oh yeah, this is ironically funny. Squirm Skip, squirm.
If a police report is a legal document, then Skip Gates is lying and does not stand a chance with any further "action" - he inflamed the whole incident and should have met the police at the door with a "thank you so much for coming" and "here is my id", not "give me your name and badge number" and "this is what happens to black men in America" - this is what happens to people who break into houses and set off alarms and make neighbors nervous, then act insulted when the cops show up.
If you read Gates account it differs from the police report. Having witnessed a few exchanges in my life, I am willing to assume the truth is in between the 2.
I'm willing to bet the cop wasn't the "most polite" person when Gates refused to go outside initially. I would have refused also.
I'm willing to bet the cop ignored Gates' request for his name and badge number.
I'm willing to bet that Gates continued to ask for the info and got loud when the cop ignored him eventually, following him outside.
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