[Editor's Note: A few months back, my old college roommate and bestest bud CJames dropped a post about black folks and baseball. I'll admit, CJames is my boy, and I was busy when he sent me the post, so I didn't really read it for quality control. Needless to say, if you were here, you know CJames snide remark about black women at baseball games setoff a firestorm on the boards, leading to a post which set the then-single-day record for comments. Since I'm all about redemption (and ad-revenue), I decided to let CJames return to kick some more k-nowledge and clear his name. Or not. Enjoy.]
Ladies, let’s be honest.
Everyone here has heard the disheartening story of black men. Whether it be stories of absentee fathers, to overcrowded prisons, to the inadequate education of the black man, to the conspiracy to eliminate the black man, to the black man’s fidelity issues, we all know the stories. But one aspect of our community that doesn’t get much attention, until today, is this abhorrent female illusions that plague some of my sisters. “Lies” is what I call it. This problem persists in women of all socio-economic backgrounds and education.
In relationships with men, women come to the table with these lies firmly rooted. Here’s the biggest lie of all time. When you ask a woman what they look for in a man, they start with honesty, commitment, respect, or whatever words you want. This is a lie. And the way I know this is a lie is because there’s plenty of 5-foot-2 inch brothas out there would treat you with honesty, commitment, blah, blah, blah, but you don’t even look at him. Tell the truth and shame the devil, please. If Jermaine Dupree wasn’t Jermaine Dupree but Herman Sturdivant working at the cleaners down the street you wouldn’t talk to that mickie fickie. You would never know if he was honest because, honestly, you don’t care.
The corollary to that lie is “I want a man on my level”. LEVEL!?! What the (bleep) is that? That translates into I need a man who makes X amount. With that statement, I can already hear the conundrum that is the female brain already cooking up more lies. Many of you are saying, “No, you’re not right. Somebody on my level means somebody who I can have a conversation with, who stimulates me intellectually.” RIGHT! That kind of guy just happens to be a lawyer or whatever level you think you’re on. Bollocks!
These lies begin the illusion when women begin to “see” things in a relationship that aren’t there. Your seemingly good man is really not all that good of a guy. The most grotesque manifestation of this illusion is with battered women. They believe these lies and make the guy seem much better that he really is. But it starts with the two lies (and there are other) that were mentioned above. But there are several more subtle ways that this illusion occurs. He may not be doing his share of the house work. Or he may not be taking care of the kids the way he should, or he may not be as romantic as he once was. Because of the lies rooted in your mind, you failed to see the signals that your man had been giving way before you noticed the problem.
Here’s a hint ladies, men don’t really change that much. You have to be observant to the signs. Here’s an example, if a guy you are talking to always seems to do romantic gestures, talk to his friends. His friends will let you know if that’s truly him or something he’s doing to get more booty. In casual conversation if you say ,”Calvin always cooks for me, he’s quite the chef” and then his friends look confused……tell tale sign he’s doing something for the booty.
Then the next phase of this illusion, if untreated, you begin to want to wear the pants in the family. Chris Rock mentions that some women don’t want to give up the big piece of chicken. These are merely metaphors for knowing your place. Many women have this illusion that your place is in the front. Trying to lead the house hold and you can’t. And the reason for all of this goes back to the initial lie because this man is not what you wanted.
So let me help you out ladies. Do you know what men want? We want truth in advertising. Do you want to know why hoochie chicks get a lot of attention? It’s not because we get to preview the goods, it’s more that we respect that they are letting us know up front what they are about.
Question: Is CJames out of his d*mn mind or does the brother make some valid points?
Wednesday, November 19, 2008
AB.com GuestPost: CJames Returns!!!
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CJames: Great post! This one came right on time.
My best friend recently gave an old flame a second chance. They first met in '99.
She has a 6 year old son from a previous relationship with another guy. That didn't bother my pal who has a young girl near the same age. The flame was rekindled when they reunited, even wedding talk was floating around.
My pal offered to be a role model to her son, but she refused the help. Never mind the fact that the boy is six years old and can barely read.
L'il dude refused to do his homework. Every time my pal confronted her about this, she got defensive and always sheltered the kid. She would respond with cynical remarks about HIS daughter.
Eventually my buddy didn't bother to volunteer his help.
Then her ex (fresh outta prison) started calling her cell-phone.
Ol' girl started getting double minded. She began acting more erratic.
Her ex-boyfriend used to beat her senseless, even breaking her eye-socket in a fistfight.
This same guy (NOT her baby daddy, BTW) was/is a drug seller and pimp. This dude even had a prostitute give her kid son a BLOWJOB!
Again, her son is 6 years old.
Oh, my wifey got HOT when I told her that.
The calls kept coming...at 3 A.M.
Anyway, those two are on the outs after she mistakenly gave him her cell phone bill with NUMEROUS calls and text messages to the ex-boyfriend. One text message to the ex even said "...he'll be home by ___, so I can see you then."
Why, ladies? Please explain why a woman would leave a good guy working 14 hours a day for an ex-con who beats her senseless and puts her son at risk?
I mean...DAMN!
EG
Not that I have any experience in this. I heard that it could be out of fear. Some women are threatened that they will be killed or hurt if they ever leave. (Ok now I remember where I got it from, Steve Harvey morning show)
She clearly needs help. That man let someone give her son a blow job!?!?! That's is child abuse and statutory rape and child negligence. I'm sorry, when it comes to my child I would have to draw the line!
CJames you have valid points. Can I be honest? If JD wasn't JD I wouldn't go after him or give him another thought. But because he is JD I still wouldn't go after him or give him another thought. I'm trying to figure out how Janet does it.
Women who don't do "truth in advertising" isn't so much them lying, but rather its not full disclosure. Its not polite to say "I wnt a man on my level....who makes six figures."
My mother who will have been married for 37 years come Thanksgiving Day told me when we had this convo that really the unsaid factor is that women want someone with status. Its the uppity equivalent almost of the overused phrase of 2008 "swagger."
Status has different levels in different arenas. Fact of the matter is all of us, men included, want to be able to go somewhere, church, the bball game, the family reunion and turn some heads; having some status behind that makes it all the much better.
But, Cjames I hink you're right, black women in particular need to correct some of these falsities, especially these HBCU chickenheads who when I was in undergrad was hollin about no good black men, with a campus full of black men doing something with their lives and they was chasing after the basketball players who were playing for these D17 schools and were NOT going pro and had 1.7 GPAs. Let the record show, many of y'all have given some decent bruthas a complex--myself included--when y'all holler it aint no good black men out there and y'all steadily chasing after the dudes from the pjs who randomly hang on campus.
@EG
Every woman on this board will say they wouldn't do that. Or I have better sense than that. Blah, blah, blah yet the mess still happens. Actually though, your pal got some issues. He suffers from the same conditions these chicks I'm talking about suffers from. LIES! I couldn't be with a woman that was battered. That will never make sense to me. My wife has told me, "if you beat me,
ya better do a good job because that will be the LAST on you'll ever get." And I believe that.
I can understand getting beat but not battered.
Back in 1997, NC A&T had their Homecoming concert on campus. That year Busta Rhymes had the hot track, "Put Your Hands" that had everybody rockin'. His buddy Rampage had a debut single too that was getting airplay.
Then there was Usher Raymond, and the song that I hate to this day, "You Make Me Wanna."
Anyway, all three performers came to Greensboro that homecoming weekend. Busta performed at the Coliseum, Rampage and Usher descended on A&T's campus.
(As an aside, rapper Black Sheep was at A&T that night. His stuff was lame. He got mad, flipped off the crowd and got booed out of the door. REDMAN was there too and that fool climbed on top of one of the 12' loudspeakers and jumped into the crowd. The police didn't like that at all.)
Usher was the last performer. He did his schtick and those shallow hoes (forgive me) screamed their heads off. I know I lost part of my hearing that night.
After this A-hat stripped to his drawers and poured water on himself these HOES (Excuse me, again) damn near rushed the stage.
This ruckus continued all the way into the parking lot where Usher's handlers had the drag him from the top of the limo so they could get out of there before a Vaginal riot ensued.
Afterwards, I asked a couple of girls this question, "If Usher was a broke-assed A&T student, but still had all of his 'talent,' would you still go crazy for him?"
Answer, "Hell, NAW!"
*sigh*
The late ODB would say, "Stankin'-assed hoes!"
--("Dog Sh*t" Wu-Tang Forever)
EG
@Cjames and errybody,
I honestly believe my pal had honest intentions for that relationship, despite it's baggage.
If there is any fault in him, it was his noble mentality going into it. Hell, I even encouraged him to go for it.
But you can't judge a book by it's cover. My friend picked up a romance book cover, but the pages written inside by Stephen King. :)
EG
@uppity
I hear you bruh, but in my opinion If you ain't telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, then you are lying. These chicks don't tell the truth.
@missjay
I have to believe you. You wouldn't holla at that dude. When women get in a relationship do you/they see the potential and then cloud the potential with reality?
@EG
Sometimes it's not as extreme as the case you mentioned. Oftentimes they choose say a lawyer over the 9 to 5 guy even though the 9 to 5 guy is a better fit for them emotionally. In their mind the lawyer can provide more for them but in reality the 9 to 5 guy is more suited for the woman. Who does she pick........the lawyer. It's that status thing I suppose.
"What happened to just falling with n*gga with a bus pass?"
-Eddie Griffin, Chronic 2001
egentleman - something about what you wrote hit me. you say that your friend began his interaction with the baggaged woman with noble intentions. how is that ANY different than these women that try to polish up a bad boy. I think they see a romance book cover too.
But, why are they (justifiably)accused of having low self esteem, but guys like, your boy, that basically do the same thing - get involved with women that are trouble - are called noble?
...and another thing, i'm soo over this whole notion of 'she only likes him b/c he has xyz'
YES! you are right, those things do attract a woman. What do you want, a cookie?
I don't understand the beef with that. Men acquire statusy things and accomplish stuff all of the time to attract women, and now, because its working, you're mad at us?
I think the point you're missing is that all men with 'status' aren't dogs and all men with nothing aren't noble. Women know this. Just like you after the initial attraction wears off, we can become genuinely interested in the person.
That's just the way it is. I know when a man at happy hour approaches me and asks me out, he's doing that because he thinks I'm attractive physically...Because he doesn't know me yet, he has nothing else to base it on. Am I offended, not if his approach is resepctful. After dating for a year, is he still into me primarily because of my hip to waist ratio? Probably not.
@penni brown: I co-sign.
Just a disclaimer: CJames' comments are CJames' and CJames' only.
Viewer discretion is advised.
@EG:
Your friend shoudl have that woman arrested, and take custody of the kid.
That's not just wrong... that's criminal abuse.
@penni brown
...After dating for a year, is he still into me primarily because of my hip to waist ratio?
That's where you're wrong. See you don't understand Man Math. As that hip to waist ratio approaches 1:1, the more golf the man will play.
Seriously, you proved my point of my post. The most important thing in a relationship is 'XYZ'. I mean that's what you just said. So all the BS about honesty and respect, though important, is secondary.
Ladies, i'm going to suggest we back away from this conversation i've seen this discussion on numerous blogs and it's always a losing proposition. it seems like whenever a man has something (he's a rich doctor) and he puts it out there (hello, can i buy you a drink, because i need a drink after working as a doctor all day) than a woman is either a chickenhead (yes, rich doctor you can buy me a drink) or she is a ball-buster trying to one-up him (what a coincidence, i'm a doctor too!)
maybe janet wouldn't be with jermaine if he worked at the dry cleaners, but would jermaine be with janet if she didn't look like janet?
OOOOOh where do I begin?
I don't have enough time of energy to fully address this right now.
I won't address the battered women because having worked with this population I know this is not the arena to try to explain anything.
I find fault with statements that group all women together. Using words like all, every, always, never, forever. The time was taken to write these comments but not time to use words like some, sometimes, often, or IMO. These are opinions not FACTS!
cjames I find this post and comments that I've previously read by you to sometimes be sexist. You're entitled to your opinion.
There are some women out there, I'm one of them who are attractive, intelligent, educated, professional and in a relationship that doesn't fit what you've presented as the 'norm'.
I dont wear the 'pants', but I'm not in the 'back' either. Alot of the man being the 'lead' thinking I think comes from religion and/or their upbringing. Many men that want this type of woman are insecure IMO.
If a man wants a hoochie woman he deserves one!
@AB-good to know you covered yourself with the disclaimer...
@Cjames
Me personally, no. Seeing the potential and then trying to change someone into what you think they can be is just not gonna work, be it a woman with a thug or a man with a battered woman. I've heard the expression that when you date someone you meet their "representative". I think that has a lot of truth to it. We put our best foot forward and try to present our good qualities. We don't want the other person to know the crazy stuff we do. You gotta be together for a minute to see that, some never find out. As far as what I look(ed) for, I don't(didn't) look for "status" per se. But I ain't about to take care of someone perfectly capable of going out and getting a job.
As for other women, I have no clue. To be honest I don't get why people in general do the things they do, but expecially women. LOL Even though I am one I still don't get it.
but would jermaine be with janet if she didn't look like janet?
I agree with that comment. That's a good question. I think if situations were different a lot of hollywood couples would not be together. I also think the same for the ones who were together and may have broken up. All depends on circumstances sometimes.
@cinco I concur.
...and I've genuinely loved a few short, ugly, broke but wonderfully dyanmic, intelligent loving men during my time on this Earth.
Wow.
1) Thank God I'm not str8 cause this level of thinking is really damaging to both males and females.
2) Who wouldn't want a partner who was making as much or more than themselves, who was good looking, who is intellectually stimulating? I mean I don't see a problem with saying "I make 50,000 a year and I want my partner to make that or more." I guess I don't know what's wrong with that.
3) If a man's "friends" would rat him out then clearly they're not his friends. *lol* I don't know any man whose friends would so obviously give a woman any indication that his boy is trying to get some panties. Unless, as you say truth in advertising she was a str8 up chickenhead/tramp. Then shit they might be trying to get some too.
4) I definitely believe for the str8 ladies out there that if you are in a relationship with a man and he's handling his business that you should let him take the reins. That does not mean however giving up your voice in the relationship. Just because he's running the household doesn't mean you just get say over food and chores. No actually, a relationship is a partnership and while he may be the masthead you are still a part of the boat and deserve just as much right to what is going to happen in the household.
5) I guess I'll throw the question back at CJames do men actually know what they want? I mean cause if they did why would they marry the tramp/chickenheads? I mean my dad always had a saying that men want a Woman in the streets, a Wife in the kitchen and a Whore in the bedroom. Meaning someone who is respectable and on top of her shit in public (and who you can take in public without being embarrassed) a wife who can make a mean pot roast and a whore who can turn you out in the bedroom.
Lately, I've been seeing more men with these trampalicious looking babes or screwing over "good" women who were down for them. So I guess I just wonder for all the str8 sistas out there do men really know what they want?
I'm sure someone might say, "you're gay stay out of it." but at the same time I'm concerned about str8 black families and relationships like anyone else. I want to see sistas and brothas successful with theirs and not stepping over to other groups of people because they can't find satisfaction at home.
I can kinda tell that CJames is kinda bitter about this since it really does seem like an angry rant at str8 black women. I wonder what all that's about.
I am a BF, tall, college grad, good job, own (not rent)a home, own a car, have a 401k, world traveller, crazy sense of humor, no babies --hense no baby daddy drama, and I come with all original parts. Yet why am I single?
I'll tell u why. Cuz brothers would rather spend their time chasing after slim half naked chicken heads than give an intelligent, well dress, over weight woman the time of day. So brothers stop being so superficial. Don't let a couple dozen extra pound stand between u and a good woman.
Peace
@kim
I would suggest that you enlighten us becasue these things are happening in our relationships. This argument is similar to racism in that many people believe that racism exists but no one thinks that they themselves are a racist. 50% of all marriages end in divorce and that applies even more so in our communities. Or even worse, we're not even getting married! So something is going on but nobody wants fess up to their issues. This post is about feelings and what many are feeling. I know that I am overexaggerating but the core feeling is there. Maybe I am wrong. But even if I am there are apparently some that see it(maybe not so extreme) as I do.
I am not trying to bash anybody.....this is just what I see. Well, I might bash here and there......
@cinco
I understand that you can't truly put every person in a box. THis is just overall what I see.
I know there are always folks to don't fit the mold, so to speak. And everytime I seem to talk to someone, they never seem to fit the mold.
So I need you to kick to FACTS then. Why are we getting divorced at extremely high rates? Why do we not even get married in the first place? Shacking is what I call it. Why is there so much turmoil between our men and women?
WHY CINCO?
@penni brown
Thank you!
I'm getting a little of sick of this cynical "all (black) women are whores" attitude. It doesn't exactly endear us to the so-called good guys who perpetuate it, but then claim to respect us. Much like hoochie chicks are upfront with men, at least the players don't pee on our leg and tell us it's raining.
@cjames;
If there were clear cut answers to your questions we might all follow the answers.
Why the high numbers of divorce? Numerous reasons across the board. I don't have the sole answers.
Why don't we get married instead of shack up? Because we can. The marriage certificate doesn't mean what some people wished it could mean. It doesn't guarantee fidelity, longevity, peace, happiness or anything else. Marriage isn't for everyone.
I don't believe in getting married just because someone believes 'it's the right thing to do'. I'm more concerned that parents parent effectively and lovingly. Or that people in relationships are genuinely kind and respectful to each other.
Although their are some cultural attributes that make our 'turmoil' unique to us, there's plenty of relationships among all people that have people that just can't get along.
@studpoet;
I'm in agreement with you concerning the desire of anyone in a relationship to want/desire something better and try to find that in ourself or in a partner. We all have our preferences. We have our limits as to how much we're willing to sacrifice or over look to obtain them. I see nothing wrong with that.
I don't really object to all the content of this post, but I do object from a general perspective for these three reasons:
1. A male is speaking to female motives using gross generalizations without the courtesy of even faking limited research via at least one true story.
2. I sense the writer is relatively bitter, making it difficult to believe "objectivity" was a goal.
3. The post completely ignores the truth that "false advertising" is a problem with both genders as some men will flock to breasts over their stated desire for "intelligence."
Here's some advice:
1. Stop speaking for the female population. We officially fire you as a spokesperson, although we didn't hire you.
2. If you're going to call yourself pointing out flaws, at least start with a few of your own. Don't you see those other fingers pointing back at you?
3. And while you're pointing out flaws, please explain the bitter undertones that seem to pop-up in your writing. Who was she? Here, lay on the couch.... we're listening....
I'll stop there.
Hawa, author of
Fackin Truth Blog (Personal Blog)
and
Cleanse Master Remix (Health Blog)
@all the fam
RE: Buddy's relationship.
I didn't clarify that the drama didn't start (phone calls, issues) until AFTER her ex started calling.
Sorry 'bout that.
My pal didn't get that information about the 6 year old/prostitute until later on when the ex-boyfriend initially came up.
@spool32
It's been on my mind. My wife wants to fight. Ironically, my buddy called me today and we'll probably meet up. I just hope ol' girl isn't around or it's gonna be real intense.
EG
@studpoet
You asked "Do men know what they want" For the most part it's very simple. Yes here it is in a nutshell.
1. A steady supply of nookie.
2. A strong desire to leave a legacy. This means Kids usually but some fulfull this in other ways
3. Someone to feed me when I get old.
@Cjames
Man you done done it. I'm going to wait a little before I get involved with this one.
@ Everybody
None of us really know what we want until you aren't getting what you want. Is that a fair statement?
The Ladder Theory explains the theory behind cjames's question perfectly.
cjames... it's all about where you are on the ladder... and about understanding which ladder you're on (because she won't tell you). :)
@ Hawa Bond
I don't think he's bitter, but sometimes when you try to get simple (and I'm not trying to sound uppity, and that's no dig at uppity - enough disclaimers) things across in relationships that you don't want it becomes a problem.
Most Men Want:
1) Someone who knows their wants from their needs. (Yeah your girl got Prada and Fendi and all of that, but she's renting her apartment, you in a house, and got a 401K)
2) Someone that they can tell their kids, that's your other and be proud about it.
3) Someone that they can take in public and talk about something other than what Shaquita was wearing yesterday at the swap meet
4) Most of us want a freak in the bedroom or at least someone willing to try new things
5) A friend, someone you can be honest with. When you are in the mall and you see a little 20 something woman in painted on white pants with a pink thong on, and your woman asks you if you were looking at that, you want to be able to tell her yes and not worry about whether you're going to sleep well that night. (Now I don't advocate a brother disrespecting his woman by drooling at said pink thong, but as long as you're blessed with eyes you're going to look.)
6) Someone you can work with. A marriage is a partnership and something that involves give and take on both sides.
@cjames;
If that's all you want, then no problem you should have plent of females knocking @ your door....
@hawa
Again I am just calling it how I see it. I am not bitter I just see a whole bunch of Tom Foolery going on and I don't understand. I'll admit that, I don't understand it.
I can't speak for the female population. I don't have the mental capacity to try and figure out what's going on up there.
I have many flaws. One of them is old-fashioned thinking. Some say sexist and I can't disagree.
@anonymous
Brothers are VERY superficial. We know that. And you know that. There's nothing hidden there. And since you know that, you know what you gotta do. You need a mouth bypass. Put them Ham sammiches down and double up on your squat thrusts. Whoomp Dere it is!
@ab...
Anytime you want to revoke your buddys' 'guest pass' feel free....
Perhaps todays' post isn't meant to resolve anything or to debate intelligently; perhaps instead another attempt to bash Black women and widen the great relationship divide.
LOL!
@cjames
Boy, you done did it, now! Every man on this board is bound to get hunted down by the AvgLadies in real life for what you just typed. Flee to the hills!
@anonymous
Why are you single? Cause WE AIN'T READY!!!! ;)
*****
Everybody in here is superficial to an extent. When you go to a car lot, your eyes get attracted to the best looking car to you. Next you worry about the MPG and sticker price.
In dating, I've found that you have to put your cards on the table. If a person doesn't meet your needs, then move on...no offense.
CJames is right, false advertising and pretenses is the root of many a failed relationship. Tell the truth and then nobody's feelings will get hurt.
Yes, I DID want a girl with a big booty and a smile when I was single. Nothing wrong with that. I wanted what made ME happy.
I wanted a girl with a brain in her head and who could put more than a subject and a verb together. Again, it's what I wanted.
(*puts hands on a stack of bibles*)
I met her, and on our first date I kissed her. While waiting for the return slap, she put this
"Grinchy" grin on her face. Shortly after....we.....well....um.
We's married now. There.
So I say again, don't be ashamed and don't apologize for going for what you want in your chase for love....or lust in my case. ;)
EG
@cinco; @studpoet; @hawa; @missjay and whomever
Apologies for all thE shenanigans but I had to get folks thinking about core issues plaguing our relationships and this is one of them. People find out WAAAY to late in a relationship about the other person's core. The core of a person is what you have to love. Oddly enough, I believe to truly understand some else's core, you need to understand your own core and then expose your significant other to your core.
Many people try to circumvent this process. This post is about how many woman circumvent this process by manufacturing a core in their mind for their significant other that is not necessarily the actual core. And then when charade is over and the core doesn't match the image that they have in their minds, problems quickly ensue.
This is not a problem that men deal with but that is a different post for a different day. So what I want to address is why do women manufacture these images. Childhood ideals mayber? I don't know but that's what I want you to tell me.
The best part of the post was "Ladies, let's be honest." I can get on board with that. As for the rest of it, I don't agree at all.
Reading this kind of stuff about the "evil that Black women do" is kind of old. Most of the Black women that I've known in my life are respectful, warm human beings who appreciate the Black men in their lives. There are plenty of "Herman Sturdivants" who are married. I am a Black woman, 38 years old, and single. I've dated the mechanic, the security guard and the "starving artist" type.
Having money doesn't make you a loving husband, a good listener, or morally superior in any way. However, being financially stable does say a lot about your judgment, your choices, and your ability to make smart decisions with what you've earned.
If a woman is clear about her values and goals in life, it makes sense to partner with someone who will share and support those goals. Why apologize for wanting to be with a man who is loving, strong, AND financially stable? After you've bought some property and achieved some level of success, why wouldn't you want someone who's done the same? Especially as you get older? Dating the broke artist, or the pizza guy at 22 is one thing, but for those of us dating in our 30's and 40's, it's a different ball game.
As for the height issue, I'll give you that one. I've dated short guys my whole life, not realizing that they were all still at least 3 or 4" taller than I am. When I dated a guy my own height, (5'5") I was ridiculously uncomfortable. I made the mistake of wearing heels on the first date, but that was the last time.
@ errybody
Lord Jesus, what the ham sammich have I done done?!?
Folks, I present CJames opinions as an alternative viewpoint, just as with any other edition of Guest Post. His views aren't mine, but despite what you might think, he's a good dude who's a great husband to a beautiful black woman and great dad to two boys. Sometimes I wonder if he's actually yanking yaws chains with his comments/guest posts.
That said: I don't particularly care for the Us vs Them tone these comments have taken on. Ya'll can either clean up the act and behave as respectful adults or I will shut this #&@&**#^ DOWN!!! B'lie' dat!
I don't have time to sort through all the comments, but here's my two cents.
1) Both sexes are superficial - Most men want the prototypical "fine" woman. Even those of us with a bit more substance than bling. Women want a man who excites them, in whichever form this takes. This is just human nature.
2) Very few people are drawn to "Inner Beauty" initially. "Inner Beauty" keeps you around after you get used to the looks, but it seldom if ever is what attract folks in the first place.
3) Relationships are HARD! Show me a couple with things on cruise control, and I'll show you a couple that's probably about to break up. Solid relationships require lots and lots of work, compromise, and patience. Many people aren't naturally equipped or otherwise trained to know how to handle and cultivate a relationship. How else would you learn this unless you've seen a real-life example? So it's no wonder that marriages fail at an astounding rate, black or otherwise.
@ KimH20s
No, Janet would not give Jamie Dupri a second glance if he worked at Bankhead Cleaners. But if Janet didn't look like Janet, she wouldn't BE Janet. Come on now, it's not like she's famous for her wonderful singing voice or philantropic efforts. She is famous because she (used to) look(s) real good.
Man, this whole post has "Real Housewives of Atlanta" all over it.
Really, it's good to have another healthy "discussion/gripefest" on the blog.
Needless to say, we all have issues that we have dealt with and it's good to see the different perspectives.
*sips Ginger Ale, the poor man's champagne*
EG
I'll say this and I'll drop it for a little while...
I don't view some women as doing anything that some men haven't done perhaps even to them for years.
The ignorance that permeates some relationships is not specific to any gender.
I'm not sure if any of the debating/provocations listed here will solve anything or enlighten us @all.
"This is not a problem that men deal with but that is a different post for a different day. So what I want to address is why do women manufacture these images. Childhood ideals mayber? I don't know but that's what I want you to tell me."
You might as well post it tomorrow then and continue the conversation because I completely disagree with you. Again you lump men and women into a large group and interestingly enough the women come out on the evil side - why do you think people keep calling you bitter?
This situation and dicussion is OLD. Before you got to college & beyond and were a "good guy" that women didn't lust after, you were a hormonal high school boy that only wanted the pretty, perky, popular girl - guess who got left behind back then? Yeah, the good girl who people didn't even take a second look at.
I think the tables have just turned and you don't like your place on the totem pole. You talk about women wanting a man on their level, men not changing much - PLEASE. You don't want Shaquita, why should a woman want Herman? You don't want Plain Jane so she won't want Thug Life either.
Yeah if Jermain Dupri were Herman Sturdivant, Janet might not be with him. But if Halle Berry were Olga Stevnopluck the librarian, YOU wouldn't try to get with her either. HMPH.
I swear AB, you just let CJames guest post to get your hit count up because he's nothing but a shit starter.
I'm not going to get into this circle jerk, piss contest that pits black men against black women.
I'm riding with Zen on this one.
Or maybe I should stop talking since as a slightly overweight chick, I need a "mouth bypass" and don't deserve some happiness. *end sarcasm* Please miss me with that shit.
Man man man. This is a heavy post. But I think the only one who really knows how it all works is spool32. We all, women and men go on looks/attraction first. And the personality and all that comes next. As we get older we will put less stock in looks and more in other attributes as we figure out what we really want while we grow personally. But we all establish "minimum requirements" in looks for our mates. This is what men mean when they say they are an A$$ man or a boob man.
Now, back to what spool said. How low you will go is relevant to how low you are or think you are on the latter. This is why people seem to match each other on looks in relationships.
And for the original post, everything else that happens in the course of us trying to find that match is a product of the dance. I could write a monster post on all this if I had a blog, but I don't. Holla at me AB for a Guest post!
@AB, @EG
Hey man I am just trying to represent actual thoughts. It's no different than when you go on an interview. When the guy says "What do you see yourself doing in 5 years?" You can't say to him, "I hope I'm not working for your behind!" Even though that's what your thinking.
@cinco
Why is the sky blue? Why is water wet? The answer to some questions may be "just because".
Olive branches!
I can't get with that "mouth bypass" thingy. My plus-sized wifey would cut my b*lls and hand them to me (PART-NAH!) if I said THAT.
Ladies, this post is a "barber shop" type thing. We can bet that our Landlord AverageBro will soon have a guest post on a lady's perspective on this subject. Then you ladies can feel free to let loose on us.
As Thurgood Orenthal Stubbs once said, "Yeah, yeah I know. I stank."
So, we dudes in here, (you too, Spool) will have to man up and accept the backlash.
It's cool. That's why the official flower for Father's Day is the dandelion. The more it's trampled, the better it grows!
:^D
EG
@ab;
Your blog. YOur right to defend your guest posters. Anyone that is allowed to post here should welcome the outpouring of comments that result. That comes with the territory.
@cjames;
Perhaps the answer maybe who gives a damn!
@cinco
Good one! I deserved that.
@EG
I'm in the same boat with you brotha. I couldn't say no mess like that. There's no need to defend me man. I'll take this one!
@AB
You don't have to defend me brotha. At the end of the day no one else pays the bills at 1654. I have always been one to come from a different perspective.
So in the end...
AverageBro = President Skroob
CJames = Dark Helmet
EG = Colonel Sandurz
AverageBro.com = MegaMaid
Spool32 = Lone Starr
Daedalus = Barf
Studpoet = Yogurt
Anonymous = Princess Vespa
Cinco = Dot Matrix
Zen = King Roland
Yep, "Prepare the ship.....for LUDICROUS SPEED! WE BRAKE 4 NOBODY!"
EG
Sadly that's the problem with bringing up a topic like this, it cuts to close to home for some and everyone starts getting personal.
Quiet is kept everyone is is superficial on some point, because you just can't see Inner Beauty in those Apple Bottom Jeans or wearing that wifebeater.
I will have to agree with CJames on one point, in this PC society people are no longer a) honest and b) respectful about their choices. If you have a type you should be true to yourself to tell that to the person and allow for them to make the decision of wheither or not you want to stay with them or not.
(Hell I had a woman come out and tell me that she wasn't going to date me because I didn't wear Boxers and Timbs. It was a shallow statement but at least she was honest. So I can fault her much.)
I'm not going to blame women in my past relations for things not going right because those are decisions that I made. I can only hope that I learned enough to make better (I'm not saying right) decisions in the future.
What was up with that Housewives of ATL? That's a train wreck waiting to happen. (Yeah it's off topic, but someone mentioned it earlier)
@EG;
The printer or the skank from Drawn together? Answer carefully...
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