Let's talk, open and honest and whatnot about child support. Now I know off the top just the mere mention of the term has some of you squirming around in your desk chairs but let’s talk about this. I've been asked is child support fair for the brothas?
Well.... I think it depends on what brothas you're talking about. It's probably viewed as too tough for men that do the right thing and too relaxed for
1. Believe it or not I think even though you never hear about them there are a lot of mothers and fathers who come up with something that works for them and more importantly the child. They both realize how important the roles they play are in that child's life so they make it happen. Like I said you don't hear about them most of the time because the ones taking the spotlight are the deadbeat dads who have to be drug into court and forced to handle their responsibilities or the mothers who abuse their support. We never hear about these other folks but a lot of them do exist.
2. A female coworker of mine was talking about how women that receive support should have to document or show how they use the money.... uh, I don't agree with that one, who has the time to go through that mess because a small percentage of women are acting a fool.
3. It seems like the guys that go out of their way the most to do what’s best for their kids are the ones that get abused the most by the system and the mothers at times, while on the other hand these dudes walking around making babies like running water seem to get all the breaks and the chances to do the right thing from the mothers and the courts. I've seen it happen many a time.
4. Listening to Steve Harvey last week I heard him drop some knowledge on a guy that had called in and was talking about the money he was paying and how he wanted it to be used. Steve mentioned this to him... When your kids opens that refrigerator door, it costs money, the showers they take cost money, that prescription medicine when they get sick costs money, that couple dollars to hang out at the mall, or go to the school dance- you guessed it - money. I think some cats are under the impression that the money they send should be set up in some kind of trust fund or something or given directly to the child but that kid is running up a tab everyday that the person they live with has to handle.
5. Ladies - if he's not taking care of the rack of kids he already has around the city, why chance having sex with the dude? Really…
6. Fellas - if she is a candidate to be on Maury Povich one day trying to explain why "You Are The Father" keep it in your pants. BBD said it best, "Never trust a big butt and a smile"
7. I've heard a bunch of guys talk about how there is so much more for a man to provide than money to a child which is true but none of these guys I'm talking about would stiff their own kids so why do they feel obligated to make the argument?
8. If you pay child support but don't make an effort to spend time with your kid - you suck.
9. If you're a tennis shoe daddy buying Jordans at Christmas and Birthdays but won't show up for your kids games and recitals your weak.
10. If your kids father is doing the right thing and you know it but you won't let him see the kids because he won't be with you, you need to get a life.
Question: Should a man be able to see his kids if he doesn't pay child support? Should a woman have to show what she does with the money? Do you have any particularly bad child support stories you'd like to share? How would you change child support?
Kimora Lee Simmons Gets Sole Custody of Children [People]
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I don't agree with the idea that a mom/dad should prevent the non custodial parent from seeing their kids just because they don't pay enough/any child support.
The only reason a child should not be allowed to see a non custodial parent is for safety reasons (physical/sexual abuse, unsafe living conditions, violence). If a parent is keeping a child away from the non custodial parent just because they won't "act the way I want them to", then there is a problem. Kids pick up the fact really quick that they are pawns in a sick, twisted war between their parents. And it ALWAYS backfires. If the non custodial parent is truly a jerk, the child will figure that out all by themselves. Kids are good at stuff like that.
You should be able to see your child regardless to whether you pay child support or not. Love isn't rooted in money.
Sure, why not do an explanation of where the funds are going. This works for both sides of the fence. In many cases if you aren't getting enough and want more you may need to explain the expenses of a child anyway. Besides, if you know how to budget then this shouldn't be a hard task.
I don't have any horror stories... I do want to say that my co-worker handles his business. Although he doesn't have a court ordered agreement with his ex-wife he understand the responsibilities of being a man and a father and gives to his ex and his children before he even thinks about eating or purchasing stuff for himself.
But you don't hear about those brothers as often as you hear about the dead beats out there.
Kimora's child support is perfectly justified. There is too much emphasis on the amount taken out of context. If Russell was there in the house, you can be sure that he would be spending at least $40K a month on supporting his family because that's how he rolls!
@ Urban Thought - Your coworker is a prime example of what to do the right way. I think most people are actually like this to some degree. It's just the stories of everyone doing wrong that you hear about.
I consider myself a reasonable person, so I waited for my child's father to finish college and get a good job and I made sure he could see her whenever possible but he still wasn't helping me with the finances. So yes, I asked for child support. And when she decided that she wanted to spend more time with him, move in with him, it hurt but I let her go. Mine isn't a horror story just how it worked out. On the flip side my brother paid child support since his daughter was born and her mother is a sorry vindictive bitch- who really deserves an ass whooping. He didn't see her from age 3 until a few months ago, she just turned 9. He's only seeing her now because the mother and her husband were abusing her and they took the child away from them. She is the type of woman who makes the rest of us look bad. She did all types of just dirty stuff like calling on Xmas saying he needed to come by to see the child but when he arrived he found that they had moved and another family was living in the house, two years in a row. He has custody right now, and they go to court next week to find a more permanent solution. She gets supervised visitation, only supervised because she was telling the child that she didn't have to do the things her Dad told her to do, or listen to him when he corrected her etc. As far as the outrageous awards go, I think that in situtations like Kimora's she has a successful business and would be able to take care of her children for half of what she's getting, it's not a major lifestyle change for the children so why be ridiculous about it? As long as the kids are able to live in the style that they are accustomed to, it's crazy to award so much money. And it's not like these dads aren't coming through regularly, taking the kids shopping or coming off serious bank during their visitations to keep the kids entertained. I don't know it just seems crazy to act like 5 figures a month is required to care and provide for a child. To me it just makes the women look greedy.
It's stories like this that make me think that Obama's Father's Day speech rings painfully true. However, I must say that I also agree with the guest posts 10 reasons.
And no, CHSP should not prevent the non-custodial parent from seeing the child. From the outside looking in, I just can't see how the adults fail to really see how they're damaging the kids. They may say that they're doing whatever it is out of love for the kids (take the woman actor opposite Idris Elba in "Daddy's Little Girls") when in fact it's really just out to spite the man.
I think this also brings up another subject of just how these women who end up with these deadbeat baby daddies--I think it would be more than interesting if we saw just how the black men in their lives have failed them. It would almost make sense that many of the women in this category would no doubt hook up with a man who has a high probability of shirking his responsibilities of raising a child.
Now I'm not suggesting that the woman makes the man deadbeat because of her womanly ways--but, honestly, take the movie Daddy's Little Girl--there are some CRAZY A$$ women out there. Men get the bad rap when it comes to domestic violence and whatnot, but somehow women take that as a carte blanche to knock the crap outta they men, and then expect the man not to be agitated.
Granted those cases may be few and far between, but they do exist and it helps make a CHSP system crumble, no matter how many safety nets are in place to help the child.
Also, let us remember, back in the day, in order to get welfare, the middle-aged white woman (at least that's what my mother always remembers and what they show in the movies) would have to go down into the ghettoes and check to see if a man was living with the family. YUP, you got it, in order to receive welfare the father could NOT be living with the family.
Well, here's the fruit of that failed policy!
JLL
@ the uppity negro- The system is screwed up, when the only way a woman can get support (welfare or whatever) is if the man isn't in the household something is wrong. I knew a guy that was working and trying to support his wife and his kids (they had a bunch together) but when the gov't found out he was in living in the house they were going to cut them off. Now they had like 10 kids so they needed that support. Should he give up the help they needed or should he leave the home? Neither is the correct answer
I think the system is broken. Why not start penalizing women for continually laying down and getting knocked up. It's unfair that men bear the brunt of the financial burden when this happens. It takes two to tango.
I don't like Russell Simmons, but paying $20k/month per child is ludicrous. What are these selfish kids eating? Filet Mignon for breakfast? Their whorish mother gets to strut around with other men while the guy who helped her build her own personal fortune gets raped for $500k/year?
That ain't right, man.
>Should a man be able to see his kids if he doesn't pay child support?
I would have to say no on this. Its like the dude would get all the benefits of having the kid and none of the hardship. Its true that money is not the root of raising a kid but at the same time if you can't afford to pay child support then what are you gonna do for the kid when you do get to spend your time with him/her? Sit around my house all day running up my bills? Sit around your momma's house all day running up bills?
Should a woman have to show what she does with the money?
I would say to some extent yes. If we are asking baby daddys to be responsible by paying child support then the baby momma should have some reasonable way of showing where that money is being spent. Basically this will keep chickenheads from spending the money on the next baby daddy rather than her own child.
Do you have any particularly bad child support stories you'd like to share?
Actually, I don't. As a child whose father paid child support regularly I don't think there was ever a time when child support was an issue in my home. My father actually adjusted his child support (without any court order) every time he got a raise. He understood that since my mother was the primary caregiver that raising a kid is an expensive undertaking. He also would send "extra" money on my b-day and holidays (in addition to his normal child support).
>How would you change child support?
Every individual who was not the primary caregiver would have to pay child support. The child support would be a percentage based on the amount of money the non primary parent made and would be adjusted according to pay increases/decreases. If the parent refused to get a job to pay the support then they would have two choices incarceration where they would receive no monies (all their money for working in jail would be given to the primary parent) or they could work in the numerous minimum wage jobs with their wages garnished. If they did not attain a minimum wage job in a timely manner then jail time it is. You may not want to work at mcdonalds but if its a choice between that and jail then...i don't know flipping burgers sounds damn good! Of course, I am in favor or minimum wage becoming a living wage but hey that's just me.
Finally, I just want to say something about Kimora. I don't think that her request (and by the way neither does Russell since he did post it on his own blog) is unreasonable. You have children who if, as kh20x said, would have that kind of support anyway if he was in the home. Clearly, if Russell was making $30,000 a year than a request for child support at that level would be outlandish. But we are talking about money on a level that I'm pretty sure no one on this website can comprehend.
So no, they may not be eating filet mignon for breakfast but they have nannies, securtity, private schools and tutors and a lifestyle that they have become accostomed to. Its something to think about. Sure Kimora has her own money but they built an empire together so they split the empire. So if Russell ain't pissed about it nobody else should be.
if you think that your child support money isn't being spent on the child then your best option is to find ways to directly spend the money on the child. if your baby's mama (or daddy) is trifling, well they still are housing your child, so send a check directly to the rental office to cover your child's house. Steve Harvey was right, your child is running up a tab with the custodial parent that has to be paid somehow. Buy the things your child needs (clothes, a computer) and give them directly to the child. it might take some additional work on both sides, but at least then you will know that your support is going where you want it to.
If you can't pay the child support then you are way passed trifling. That person probably doesn't need to see the kids. I mean there is nothing of value that a man who doesn't pay child support can give a child. He can't keep a woman, he can't take care of his responsibility, his view of right and wrong is already warped.
Some people might argue that the child is hurt in this situation but is he/she really hurt. Some might also argue that the child needs a male influence. But you must understand a man who does not pay child support is a piece of sh*t. I personally don't like sh*t. I think sh*t stinks. I wouldn't want my child near a piece of sh*t.
Excuse my tirade but there is just no reason no to pay child support. NONE!
@cjames
I disagree. It's VERY easy to fall behind on your child support. Lose a job, get laid off, can't find a new gig. Just like every other bill, it's very easy to fall behind.
It doesn't make these men sh*t, it just means they don't have a consistent income. IMHO, under those sorts of circumstances, when a man is TRYING to work, but runs into employment issues, the child support should be flexible. You can't feed a kid if you don't have money to.
I wouldn't considered THESE men deadbeats.
How about we consider that there's a lot more to supporting the child than money. If both of the parents - whether they're together or not - are spending equal time with the kid(s) then no one has to pay the other anything.
Of course that only happens in a dream world...so in reality...if you're not paying child support you need to sit down and shut up. It drives me crazy that my father who was an only occasional payer of child support and who went YEARS without seeing me or talking to me would have the nerve to brag about me to his friends and coworkers. Ever since he's decided to come around (now that I'm an adult, saddled with tens of thousands of dollars of student loans and mom has paid for everything), I'm finding out that for years he'd learn things from my cousins or our occasional contact and pretend like he's actually my dad.
My point is - if you're a parent then you're one in so much more than just paying whatever measily bit (or lot bit) comes out of your check to your kids every week/month. If we could just fix the system to reflect that then we'd be moving in a better direction
I'd change child support by letting all funds from the male go onto a Food Stamp type debit card. That card could only be used on food, clothes and medicine. The spending limit for each single transaction would be $250. The limit for the day would be $1000.
The card could not be used in an ATM, and no cash could be given back during transactions.
The card would also only be used at certain stores. No Nike Stores, Foot Lockers or high end supermarkets.
The male would get a letter in the mail showing a detailed listing of each and every expenditure that was used on the card. The social service aligned to the kids would get that listing as well.
I can't tell you how many times I have seen women take Child Support Checks and buy electronics when I worked in retail.
EG
@ cube
Are serious about the flexibility? Howa bout tell that cild that he need to hold off on eating--he needs to be flexible. You know like I know that is not fair to the child. Child support is not a bill. It is taking care of your child.
@ ebonygentleman
Want to make sure your "baby mama" don't spend your money on the wrong things---don't hook up with the wrong woman. conversations like these shoudl be an eye opener for men. If you keep i tin your pants then all this can be avoided.
@kh20x
I agree with you. I bet Russell did not have problem with any of this. He is loaded. $40k is no big deal to him. Why does everyone think this is ridiculous? These children were born with a golden spoon in their mouth. Why take it out? I believe he would want them to be taken care of like this. If he has no problem with it then why do we?
The system is really screwed up. Several states have started taking the woman's income into consideration, as well they should. And I say this as a femalwe who has seen manyof my male friends railroaded by women with a chip on their shoulders for whom it all boils down to the money. There should be some accountability. If you walking around in the latest designer gear and your kids are wearing Old Navy hand-me-downs, something is wrong. And why should the man be living in a one bedroom efficiency on the wrong side of the tracks, while the woman is chilling in a new 4 BR, 3 BA home in the burbs? A friend of mine's ex-wife won't even talk to him, except to inquire where her check is.(He tells her to call child support and ask them.) She puts the kids on the phone to deliver any messages other than the "money call". It's sad. The children are so unhappy, and they recognize they are being used as pawns. Keep in mind this brother is educated with the means to provide, and the kids have never wanted for anything. They had an agreement that didn't involve he state, until he decided to remarry and have another child. She then ran out and filled for child support, and told her kids "it's not your sibling unless it came out of me". (even though she was the one who intitated the divorce.)
Now mind you, it was okay for her to remarry and have more children. Unfortunately, I see too many of these situations, and it's time that men who are doing the right thing to catch a break.
There is more than enough blame to go around in this situation. Having babies when you are not married is bad. Getting a divorce when you have children is bad. Getting upset over what rich people have to pay in support is crazy. Just a thought.
If we all were a little more selective in our choices about our spouses and significant others, and our sexual practices, the children would not have to suffer the fools that have been left to rais them.
@anon:
Saying "don't hook up with the wrong woman" is like asking someone to go back and buy the winning lotto ticket right after the winning numbers have been announced.
No one (man or woman) has that kind of perfect detection of who is good and who ain't until you actually experience said person.
Plus, since I don't have any baby mamas (I'm married), and no kids (Hot damn!) your response doesn't apply to little ol' me.
But thanks for replying, as it is.
EG
@ ebonygentleman - you can't always tell about people but a lot of times the indicators are there. Like I mentioned in the write up if a dude already has a bunch of kids around town he's not taking care of why would a woman think she's going to be different? Open your eyes!!
Also I see where you were trying to go with the ATM Card but it's not practical. Last month we had to pony up money for chearleading, dance class and outfit for recital. Lunch money before school ended, summer camp\daycare etc... Things come up besides clothing and food. What if you use the card to pay for cloting and food but the custodial parent can't pay the utilities that the kids are helping to run up?
@ Cjames- I think things happen in life like you talked about but... most of the time I don't think this is the case. If something like that happens and the guy is actually trying to find a job then thats one thing but some folks just don't pay or they figure they won't have enough left to live the lifestyle they want to live so they don't work at all. That's weak.
@ thedad....I agree with you. I somewhat agreed with the card thing but like you said daycare, lunch money, rent, all of that is taken into consideration when CS is ordered.
Now as far as horror stories, I'm 26 and my dad still owes back support. Not that I'm looking for it. But it would come in handy. But he's locked up at the moment and sometimes I find myself sending him money. It's like the roles are reversed. But a different story I have is my fiancé and I keep his 2 kids. Their mother had "conditions" when she wanted to see them. She was constantly asking for money. It was like she believed that she should be paid for giving birth to them. They don't live with her. They live with us. We pay rent, put clothes on their back, feed them, pay their daycare every week, take them to the doctor, and she wants money from him? Oh hell to the no! If anything she should be paying him child support. That would be your example of the tables turned around.
@thedad:
I understand that things like lunch money and book fees for school do come up.
But cheerleading, dance recitals and outfits for those activities are luxuries. You choose to participate in those events. The same goes for sports and field trips.
It's fine for character development and even for school and parental popularity, but they aren't absolute neccessities for life.
Most of a kids' needs come from clothes, food and meds. They must have those, or else they can't survive. But the kids' caretaker should pony up for the other things.
Think about that. In theory you're getting money for clothes, food and meds. That should take much of the hardships off of the caretaker. All they have to do is manage the utilities.
Most schools where I live are doing school uniforms, and those are moving toward the more affordable route these days.
If the kids want to rock Jordans and stuff from high end places at sixteen, then they should get a part-time job. I started working at sixteen, and it gave me a sense of freedom with my money.
I think it could be done. If folks can't manage their kids on $1000-$1500 a month of outside income in addition to your own income, then I don't know what else to say. Sometimes you just have to know when to say 'NO' to your kids.
EG
While I see your point EG, that would be unfair to make that one parent pay for everything that the extra curricular activities require. It would also be unfair to the child to not let them be in it because "their daddy doesn't want his CS money spent in that way." Some people are like that. But like it was said earlier, the system is broken. I feel it'll never get fixed. Too many people abusing it.
Hello there!!
I absolutely believe that a father should be permitted to see his children - if he is paying child support or not! Children require emotional connection to both parents and I meet far too many black women who did not have a father in their lives and BELIEVE ME....there is a difference when a girl has been parented by a black man and when she has not been...
How many fatherless men out here and how many fatherless women out here will HONESTLY tell you that when they were children they would not have wanted to spend any time at all with their parent unless that parent was paying child support?? A child does not see it that way... and the child's needs are what is important...
Adults need to stop playing these tit-for-tat games about money...and put their FOCUS on the emotional needs of their children...
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
First, I agree that if you don't want kids with some man or woman you aren't married to, you should take all the necessary precautions: first, choose carefully. I can't believe all these women/men turned into someone new after the baby was born. Secondly, set some standards for yourself. Just because you can have a baby and you don't have a husband or wife doesn't mean you should. Lastly, if you do the first two AND you've correctly used birth control measures and somehow still end up pregnant, talk to your partner and figure out a workable solution to raising and providing for a child.
I do think a non-custodial parent who can't pay child support should be able to see his or her child. The manner in which parents conduct themselves sets an example for a child.
Finally, from my view on the outside, Russell and Kimora seem to be an example of how people can amicably split and still raise children. And for the poster who said Kimora was a slut, last time I checked she was divorced and free to date whomever she liked. Also, those same blogs that show her dating, show Russell dating. Why no slutty labels for him?? Sounds like you're bringing your own isshas to the table. Find a better way to address them than lashing out at women you don't know. If Russell has no problem providing that amount monthly for his children, no one else should be bothered about it. Let's get about our own business.
My ex pays child support when he felt like it, and I still allowed him to see his sons. To me, it was more important for them to have a relationship with him.
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