Well, he had to do it. They left the man with no choice.
Sen. Barack Obama's campaign confirmed Saturday that he has resigned from the church where controversial sermons by his former pastor and other ministers created repeated political headaches for the Democratic frontrunner. Sen. Barack Obama's campaign has confirmed his resignation from Trinity United Church of Christ.Again, this isn't any different than what you'd hear at the typical black church, barbershop, or hell, even my house on any given day. Just listen.
The resignation comes days after the Rev. Michael Pfleger, a visiting Catholic priest, mocked Obama's Democratic rival during a sermon at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Illinois.
In the video, Pfleger wipes his eyes with a handkerchief and suggests that Sen. Hillary Clinton wept because she thought that as a white person and the wife of a former president, she was entitled to the presidency.
Again, tell me what's so bad about what's being said here? Of course that woman had a sense of entitlement. Of couse this Magic Negro jumping in the fray at the 11th hour upset the perfectly laid plans. Is this anything particularly new or Earth shattering? I think not.
The problem here, is the same as with Rebb'n Wright: Tone. The way you say something is often just as important as what's being said. Since a huge majority of the country is either unfamiliar, or uncomfortable with the way folks in the Black church (and I'm including Pfleger here as well, cause well, hey, you can see how he C.H.I.N.), and Black America in general express themselves.
It is what it is.
The other problem is that Trinity didn't exactly help Obama out, leaving him little choice but to do what he did. I am well aware that the occasion for Pfleger's "controversial" remarks wasn't a regular service, but rather a special conference about race relations hosted by TUCC. Still, Rebb'n Otis Moss and Co. have got to know better. Unofficial Black America Rule #4080 is "don't give em' rope to hang you with." Knowing full and damn well that the world is focused on their every word, the church should have been more careful. They should have kept Obama's name out they mouth, at least until November. But they just couldn't help themselves.
They left him no option.
And that's pretty damn sad, because while I occasionally don't agree with my Pastor either, the same pundits accusing Obama of being a closet terrorist probably don't realize church (or at least my Black church) is about far more than Sunday mornings, because they probably don't even belong to one. It's about relationships. It's about family tradition. It's about the social fabric that binds entire communities together. It's about so much more than a few excerpts from a sermon.
And since I'm on the topic, if TUCC is so damn toxic, how come they couldn't come up with anything worse? This church, if it's anything like mine, likely has 3 services each Sunday, and a number of mid-week activities. If that's all you can pull from those thousands of hours of preaching over decades of time, then just maybe you're barking up the wrong tree. Maybe that means such examples are the exception at TUCC, not the rule. Which would make Obama's insistence on sticking around for all the reasons I listed above quite understandable.
I'm sure this won't appease the horde of conservative talkin' monkeys who want to hang Barry from a figurative Magnolia tree. They'll say this move was pure politics (and let's be honest, at this point, it is). They'll try and connect Obama to Pfleger, and by proxy Farrakhan, and by proxy, Beelzebub himself. They'll call on him to not only denounce TUCC, Rebb'n Wright, Rebb'n Moss, and Pfleger, but also all of Black America that even remotely agrees with such as assertion. They'll fake this whole thing as protecting Hillary Clinton from sexist remarks, conveniently overlooking the fact that nothing anyone's said is sexist.
But I doubt they'll say anything more about John McCain's mess.
Typical.
Question: Is this the end of the media's obsession with Obama's religious affiliations, or merely the beginning of yet another chapter?
Obama resigns from controversial church [CNN]
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He shouldn't have left the church, although I understand why he did. But Obama’s gonna get jammed up no matter what he does. He just needs to keep pushing through like he’s been doing. It’s just one more example of being Black in the US of A. It’s sad that Jon Stewart’s the only one bringing up Mc Cain’s Religious Buddies, and not the MSN.
Oh, the media isn't done with Trinity (in my opinion). The church just won't get the headline spot anymore.
GREAT POST!
I thought rule #4080 was that "record company people are shadeeeeeeeey!" Lol Name that track AB....
He had to leave the church. I too don't understand why Trinity just couldn't keep their mouth shut about the elections till November.
It's very sad for the Obamas that they had to leave though. As you said a church is about so much more then services, it's about community. But they needed to find a new church in Washington DC anyhow :)
Where does Obama draw the line?
At some point he should have realized that some people just aren't going to vote for him no matter what. He's running the risk of alienating his base.
Yesterday Hannity made it clear that he smells blood in the water and he is not going to stop attacking Trinity, Obama and by extension any Black progressive voice.
I mean, resigning from your church for political reasons? That's a move I would expect from Harold Ford, but not Obama.
If Obama is so willing to throw long standing relationships overboard because they make some (reactionary) white people uncomfortable, what good is it to have him as President. I mean honestly, what unabashedly progressive pro-Black stance has he taken?
If this whole renounce and denounce game keeps up look for Obama to be denouncing Nat Turner and David Walker before too much longer...
Perfect example of why I don't go to church. See how much trouble it got Obama into. If he would have just stayed home and played GTA, he would have been a shoe in.
But Then Again....
I might be Totally Wrong.
Bravo. I had every confidence that sooner or later you would put this episode in proper perspective, and you have done so very eloquently. (From a longtime admirer of Father Pfleger in Effingham IL).
EXCELLENT ENTRY!
As Obama said yesterday, it became abundantly clear that every controversial or offensive antic/remark voiced by a leader or guest speaker @ TUMC (or anyone he ever crossed paths with for that matter) was to be (unfairly) conjoined to him.
It now appears that opportunists would take liberties with Obama's affiliation with the church and, therefore, Obama had to remove the stain.
Of course, even though he's no longer a member, his judgment will still be challenged b/c of his 20 year association with the church.
The insinuation is that his character is flawed b/c he sat through 20 years of Wright's sermons and since Wright is a flawed, unpatriotic, evil, hateful, misguided and loss soul...
Religion and politics do not mix.
If Obama's separation from TUMC was purely politically motivated and if he was wholly denouncing the church, which he's not, he would've left soon after the Rev. Wright blowup.
Kirk Van Irvin,
MSNBC, particularly Keith Olbermann, has reported on and stayed on top of McCain's pastor AND lobbyist problems.
This is Trinity's loss, not Obama's. They could have had the "President" as a member of the church. I'm sure this political move isn't meant as an offense. He needed to cut the controversy where he could. Who knows? He could resume ties with them later down the line.
I'm sure, as with Rev. Wright, it's nothiing personal.
EG
@ Singaporeswim:
I stand corrected on being wrong about John Stewart being the only one , and I’m gonna keep looking , cause I don’t know everything. But you have to admit Keith Oberman is one guy among how many MSM journalists? There is a large gap in the coverage.
P.S. You gotta tell me where you got your Blog name!
Kirk
Kirk Van Irvin,
agreed, ko is one of a very few.
singapore swim is just a little, um, creative (if you will) juxtaposition.
I voted for Obama on Super Tuesday, but probably would not have if this junk had been reported before the primary. It is not that I'm offended, but that I know this sinks his campaign. Obama will become another McGovern. If the GOP can turn Kerry into a coward, and Bush into a warriror, they will have field day with Barack. Don't blame the MSM, this was going to come out sometime. In fact, the MSM avoided Trinity for over a year dismissing it as old news. If they reported this last summer, Obama would be at home writing his third book. Don't blame the MSM. Wright, Pfleger, Ayers, Michelle, their remarks were supposedto help? WTF? The picure in that muslim garb? A rookie mistake? When Fox News has that picture on everyday asking who BO met in Pakistan when he visited as a young man will make that a fatal mistake I know I'm a party pooper, I talk to the kids who think none of this matters and that BO will change the world. I remember when I was idealistic, but I live the real world and this stuff is toxic to BO becoming President. Although I dismiss this stuff as kooky preachers who should have gone into show business, when did white people lose the right to be be offended by inflamatory remarks? Did I miss a memo or something?
lol @ people calling Keith Olbermann a "journalist". Ugh!
TUCC and the Black progressive church deserve to be raked over the coals. The more I read about black liberation theology, the more I wonder what the hell Obama was thinking...
The most charitable thing I can think of is that it was always politics... he needed a prominent church on the south side to get elected, and stuck around because there was mutual benefit in the people he met, the connections he made and for his image...
... you might hear this stuff down at the local barbershop, but the sort of person we want to run the country ought to be a little more intellectually discriminating, don't you think?
Obama's problems with TUCC are a microcosm of the problems all reasonable Democrats have with their increasingly leftwing, "progressive" party.
Spool32: "... you might hear this stuff down at the local barbershop, but the sort of person we want to run the country ought to be a little more intellectually discriminating, don't you think?"
You might want that but the people you CAN vote for in November will both have (had) a church-connection you might not agree with. So where will that leave you then?
:)
@ kirk/sing-swim,
GET A ROOM!!!!
@ Yellow Fellow
My bad, I meant Rule #4081.
@ wilma
Ditto. I don't think it's unreasonable for the Pastor to tell his congregants and anybody who visits in the pulpit to act like they've got some damn sense. I'm pretty sure this isn't a regular occurrence (this particular instance wasn't even a regular service) but some common sense has to be exercised. If not for the sake of Obama's campaign, then at least to salvage what little regard anyone might have left for TUCC.
Assuming they make it to DC, they're more than welcome to join/visit my church. We'd greet them with open arms, but I'm sure Fox News would find LOTS of problems with my pastor too.
It's a lose-lose. Hell, the guy might be better off if he actually WAS a Muslim at this point.
@ anon 6:09
It's sad, but you're right. On the other hand, the folks he's having to renounce could do him some favors by standing on their own two. Rebb'n Wright, I'm lookin' at you cuz'!
@ halfdome
Are you seriously BLAMING OBAMA for putting on the customary SOMALI garb when he visited his homeland? A rookie mistake? Are you NUCKIN' FUTS, man!?!?
Damn, if you're serious about that statement, then I can't even entertain the rest of your comment.
Sorry.
@ spool
I was waiting for you to weigh in. I don't personally think the man chose TUCC for "political gain". Let's not forget, he's been a member of the church for 20+ years. I doubt dude was thinkin' "hmmm, I could gain some props with Black folks if I choose to run for Prez someday." Unlikely. If that were so, wouldn't he have joined some other megachurch with a far higher profile? TUCC isn't exactly The Potter's House (Google it).
More likely than not, he joined for the same reasons MOST of us do: for a sense of community, the relationships, and to hear "the word".
Anytime you're a politician, OF COURSE IT'S ALL ABOUT POLITICS!!! Do you give a rats behind about the church/social affiliations of the guy who sits in the cubicle across from you at work? Of course not. So please don't try and make this whole thing (joining the church, defending it, leaving it) any deeper than what it is.
I'm glad the Dems are finally wrapping up. Let's see how Cotton Hill stands up to the media onslaught once folks get a hold of some of his MANY gaffes.
And for the last time, PLEASE stop making everything a Democrat/Republican issue. Sometimes it's a lot deeper than that (in this case, race). I think Black folks have seen beyond a shadow of a doubt that neither party gives a crap about them. I still haven't ruled out switching party affiliations to Independent when all the dust settles here. I wouldn't be shocked to see Black America doing the same in DROVES!!!
All I'm saying is when they show the picture of the dude in the turban, a great many people will not have the level headed and nuanced view that you do. I remember on election day 2004, a reporter asked a voter how she came to vote for W. She replied, "I don't read newspapers, I don't watch the news, I voted cause he's a good Christian man." This kind of image can give legs to the whispering campaigns that are no doubt underway. Images are powerful, and I'm sure you know how the GOP is good at using them to maximum advantage. I ask you AvgBro, do you think that photo can be help or hindrance to BO? Surely, you give the American people too much credit. I can't remember who said it, but it sums up my POV, "No one ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American people." You can substitute votes for money, and it is still valid, IMHO. I'm giving you my honest thoughts, and don't mean to come off as a rube.
I'm not surprised that TUCC is being used as a wedge issue against Obama. But what does surprise me is that TUCC is making it so easy.
I think that AB has already had the last word on Rev. Wright's National Press Club performance. Though in some ways, this Pfleger clip is even more damaging.
With Rev. Wright, he could be written off as a single aberration. But the problem with this Pfleger clip is the hypervisual crowd response.
The greater the portrayal of Obama as "The Blacks' Candidate," as opposed to "The Black candidate" the smaller are his chances of ever occupying the White House.
Fortunately in the short term, at least, Hillary has alienated a lot more people by openly embracing her role as "The Women's Candidate," that the two extremes cancel each other out, and the nomination will be decided by sheer talent, which is hardly an even match.
The way you say something is often just as important as what's being said.
^^^
Bingo. I was just having a discussion with my aunt about this ...
I know HuffPo had been on McCain's pastor situation for a minute, especially after McCain 'denounced' those pastor's remarks and threw Obama's name into it.
It's a shame that Obama had to leave the church but they seem to be holding him down than pushing him forward.
Meh, the only problem I can say is that he mentioned white people. Beyond saying Hillary believes she's entitled I don't think he was too far off the mark.
well, i skimmed the entries and not unless I totally missed it, I just think AB hit the nail on the head when he said that what Fr. Pfleger said was nothing that much off the mark from that what many blacks have said in the privacy of their own home and in barbershops and beautyshops across this country. Granted I have a problem sometimes with barbershop philosophy and theology because it seeks to simplify complex problems, but I think the problem I forsee in this is a censoring of the pulpit again.
I mean, this is our sacred institution, and I granted its a LOTTA crap spewed from pulpits that I totally despise, I guess as long as sermons aren't inciting wanton violence, to each their own. At this point in the game, Trinity might as well just open the floodgates and go all the way with black liberation theology, I mean even the white guy with a mostly black parish on the South Side of Chicago can't say what he wants in that pulpit, then we REALLY have a problem.
Furthermore, I think we, black people especially, need to realize that our lives in this country do NOT run parallel to that of whites. For some reason, because they think that black lives run parallel to theirs, then somehow we bought the hype. Our lives weave in an out of that which is uniquely our culture and that from the dominant culture. The Black church is one of those unique moments. We need to stop expecting whites to understand our culture--clearly the media is doing a SHITTY job of even ATTEMPTING to understand it. They are judging our culture in respect to their culture.
Now, I'm not advocating "black separatism" as Hannity so eloquently stated March 2007 in the one and only interview with Rev. Wright, but rather, I'm just calling for a recognizing of another culture and let it stand as it is and find some common ground on which both cultures can both stand.
However MSM and I think the broad majority of white America is missing is that, Rev. Wright was not some lone voice out in the wilderness, or some random crazy black preacher--there are more than just him.
@AB:
OK, maybe I'm looking at it too simplistically... I was trying to be charitable! If Obama really does buy the TUCC message, the "anti-middleclassness" doctrine they scrubbed from their website after the initial explosion, or black liberation theology in general, I don't want him as President and neither should any reasonable person.
I guess the problem is that I just don't know what to think about Obama and religion, and how he sees himself in the context of America. I mean...
OK. Obama has shown himself to be overall a pretty good politician. He's had his dumb moments... claiming his relative helped liberate Auschwitz when it was probably Buchenwald (Auschwitz was liberated by the Russians) or claiming he'd been to all 57 states... but that's just flubs. So: did he just think nobody would notice his preacher and his crazypants message? Did he think people would see past all the conspiracy theories and find some better theme?
Or did he just not realize that the large majority of Americans find this church's philosophy and BLT in general pretty damned offensive, when they learn about it? Several people here have said that it's no different than what they hear in their own churches... maybe that should give them pause, because TUCC doesn't represent the mainstream even in the black Christian tradition. If this is what's normal for Obama and he just never really realized it was out in left field for practically everyone else... exactly how much other stuff about America does he not know? It makes me wonder about the man in ways that don't cause me to want to vote for him.
I'd like to see a reporter dig past these superficial things we're seeing, and ask Obama some very pointed questions about black liberation theology and where he stands on some of its teachings.
@Spool32:
If Obama really does buy the TUCC message, the "anti-middleclassness" doctrine they scrubbed from their website after the initial explosion, or black liberation theology in general, I don't want him as President and neither should any reasonable person.
Why the hell don't you just come out and say he's too black for you!
Any black man running for president would have been too black for you.
By the way: a little melanin under your skin might tone down the load of whiteness that you spew on this blog. I find it way over the top, and one of the reasons I rarely come here.
@halfdome:
"You can substitute votes for money, and it is still valid, IMHO. I'm giving you my honest thoughts, and don't mean to come off as a rube."
America comes off as "rubes." We're in a new millennium, and a new century, and too many of us are still thinking ante-bellum.
I'm not sure if Obama can save us from years of white rule in this country, anyway:
Oil prices poised to bankrupt us; a war in the middle east threatening to bring us down militarily (battle fatigue) and morally; the heartland being devastated by weather patterns attributed to global warming (with us as some of the greatest contributors; I know...it's not man-made but cyclical).
And...we're concerned about Obama's church, some garb he wore when he was among his relatives, and Michelle saying "for the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country..."?
You know, Obama's too good for this country. You don't deserve him, or Michelle.
You deserve Hillary Clinton, with her pack of lies, and her waiting around to see if Obama's going to be assassinated and/or John McCain, the straight talker, who will keep us in Iraq forever, and who has vacillated on every position he's ever held.
Come to think of it: you deserve them both. McCain should make Hillary his VP, or she should make him her running mate.
God knows the mate she now has can't stop running his hands up every skirt that will let him.
What you deserve is the continued slide into oblivion that was started many years before Obama came on the scene.
God doesn't have to damn this country. All you wonderful, fine patriots are doing a damn good job of it on your own.
Its about time this wellspring of ignorance (Trinity and its ilk) was brought to light. And we wonder why some black people act so ignorant, have no self worth or self esteem or have such backward views. They werent born that way. Their mothers brought them to church to be taught this mess. As for McCain, when I see proof that these Hagie married him to Cindy, baptized his children and having those views parroted by his wife I will beleive the media is biased against Obama. Its silly to think the media would be biased against any socialist. I hate t say this people, but Obama has to be president of all of america not just black america.
I for one and still stuck on Father Pfleger saying "Oh Damn" in the pulpit.. What's up with that and the church members standing up applauding that mess? That is/supposed to be God's house of worship...look what it's being turned into... a mess.
@Daedalus: "And we wonder why some black people act so ignorant, have no self worth or self esteem or have such backward views.
Speak for yourself.
Am I detecting a little self-hatred here.
You protest to much. You are what is wrong with some black people.
Spool32 said:TUCC and the Black progressive church deserve to be raked over the coals. The more I read about black liberation theology, the more I wonder what the hell Obama was thinking...
@Spool32: As a member of a progressive black Baptist church, I respectfully would like to tell you that you really need to STFU.
Uppity Negro is correct. White folks just don't get it. We don't worship the same and because blacks don't worship like white folks do it's all scary and different. I am a 34 year black women with an MBA and come from a stable two parent home and my life experience is STILL going to be different from a white chick from a similar background. I'm not whining about it, I'm not bitching about it; it is just the truth.
The Black church certainly has its own issues with homophobia, sexism and the like and I am certainly cognizant of that fact but really though; some of the things Rev. Wright and Father Pfleger have spoken about have been discussed at MY church and at MY dinner table and I resent the notion that I an somehow abnormal in thought for having these discussions.
Spool32 also said: "Several people here have said that it's no different than what they hear in their own churches... maybe that should give them pause, because TUCC doesn't represent the mainstream even in the black Christian tradition."
If you aren't a black Christian, how the hell would you know what the mainstream is. There you go again trying to fit this into your 'white is right and anything contrary to that is WRONG' box. I sincerely doubt that Trinity's 6K plus member congregation isn't as mainstream as they come.
This whole conversation runs me hot. It's really beyond Obama to me. It is frustrating, infuriating and most of all insulting. Black folks have to put up with so much BS from silly ass white folks who refuse to get a clue. Now we have be told the way we worship God is all fucked up too???
Ya'll need to sit down somewhere. Seriously.
@Anonymous: Let me ask you a question? How many people did I kill today? How many of our women did I call bitches? How much money stolen? How many rapes? None. All I did was dare to think diffeently than the majority of black people and I am what is wrong with some black people? No self hatred here, I do see however, how many would hate me. And all I did was dare to think diferently.
My last comment on the issue:
To all:
I still am trying to figure out why are we trying to make black liberation theology and the Black church and ultimately black culture fit into the mold of what is dictated by larger mainstream America (and yes that's code word for white America). Seeing as how nothing in the PRACTICE of black liberation theology or the Black church is calling for the outright murder of ALL white folks nor anarchy of the US gov't, the best I can tell is that really black culture just holds up a mirror to the dominant culture and clearly the dominant culture (yes, there's that coding again) doesn't like what they see.
keep it uppity, JLL
@Uppity Negro: AMEN!!!
This whole mess is just another example of how minorities have to 'explain' their everyday behaviors. What so many white people are unfamiliar with is that alot of this nonsense is common place in the pulpits of African American churches.
It's unfortunate that he and his family have to 'resign' from their church whatever that means- I guess this is a political way of describing his actions, most people just leave when they've had enough! (Perhaps if he had did just that, it would not have been enough!) In the end I think if he returns every now and then once in office, no one who cares will be able to do anything anyway. This is just the beginning of all the scrutiny he will be subjected to. He and his wife are adults and can handle it; as for their young children I hope the parents protect them from the madness.
heh, big post time.
@anonymous:
When you sign your name, I'll pay attention to you. Until then, I'll see your "Obama is too black for you" comment and raise you: this blog is too real for you to stick a name to your words, even an internet handle. It doesn't surprise me much though: I'm not part of the groupthink... I guess another perspective is just "too white" for you, since it doesn't fit with your beliefs.
Luckily there are far too many intelligent commenters on this blog who both disagree with me and understand that people are able to hold opinions independent of the stereotype enforced by their skin color. One anonymous idiot who thinks melanin levels dictate how your brain processes ideas won't reflect badly on the rest of the witty, insightful people here who disagree with me.
@Tiffany:
You've got an MBA and never encountered the idea that somebody could learn about a theology by reading the words of its supporters and its creator? You figure 6K people in a church is an indicator that it's mainstream? In Chicago? Salem Baptist in Chicago brings in over twenty thousand people every Sunday. World Changers in Atlanta has many more, and I'm sure a bit of searching could find other examples. The NYTimes estimates that only around a quarter of black congregations subscribe to TUCC's liberation theology message.
I applaud your sincerity of doubt, but you're plain wrong on the facts. TUCC isn NOT in the mainstream, and black liberation theology is NOT in the mainstream. This shouldn't come as a surprise, because black liberation theology teaches concepts that most Americans (black, white, and otherwise) disagree with on a fundamental level.
You're absolutely right that your life experience is going to be different, partly because of your race. There's nothing wrong with that... I think it should be celebrated, as part of the tapestry of experience and history that makes America an amazing place to live.
Nevertheless, I think you should dust off the MBA and apply some critical thought to the numbers... then perhaps reconsider telling people who don't agree with your religious beliefs to STFU. Isn't vehement silencing of criticism what the conservatives are supposed to do? Let's be progressive about this, hmm?
@Uppity
Well... Malcom X said "If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him.... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy." and James Cone, the founder of black liberation theology, said when he heard the quote that Malcom X was "not far wrong".
Perhaps it's not fear of the other, but actual disagreement with a ministry that preaches marxism and finds divine race war "not far wrong" that people find so objectionable. And you guys act surprised?
lol, surprise! Most Americans, including black Americans, believe in a capitalist system and don't believe God supports killing whitey.
Spool: Have you ever thought that I like telling you to STFU??? LOL!!!
And please don't patronize my education experience. I most certainly did earn it.
I'm not silencing your right to critique at all because as noted in my original comment I have my own issues with the black church. What I DO have a problem with is the paternalistic, patronizing tone of your comments. Just because black liberation thelology is not expressly taught in a lot of black churches (have you even attended service at a black church, BTW) doesn't mean that black ministers haven't been influenced by its basic premise which is:
The primary architect of Black Liberation Theology in North America is James Cone. A Protestant minister who grew up in Arkansas under the heavy hand of segregation, Cone observed first-hand the way white Christians treated blacks — even after desegregation was ordered by the federal government. The Christian messages of peace and brotherly love contrasted sharply with Christians’ bigoted behavior, and this left a lasting mark on Cone’s thinking.
Eventually Cone developed a “black theology” of liberation from oppression, racism, and poverty — and independently of the work of Gustavo Gutiérrez. Cone argued that the white church and white theologians had all failed in their duties to uphold biblical principles of helping the poor and marginalized of society. Indeed, Christians had become actively complicit in making the lives of others worse.
Because of this, it was no longer acceptable to leave the interpretation of the Bible to white Christians. Blacks must take responsibility for their own religion and their own relationship with God. (Source about.com)
My own pastor has been taught by Rev. Wright himself and I attend one of the larger black churches in Houston chock full of buppies. I am taught about self reliance, determination, and self responsibility along with being taught about prayer, outreach and faith.
And that's out of the mainstream?? It's just out of YOUR mainstream. Contrary to popular belief, black folks aren't aliens. We don't have to do things the way white folks think they should be done. And ya'll will get over it.
I'm done with this topic. Fire away. See you on the next go round.
@ innercityrose
my thoughts exactly.
I have actually, a baptist congregation in the v. tiny town where I grew up. On and off for eight years, but it's been quite some time since I stepped in a church of any sort.
I'll grant you the patronizing tone, Tiff... I was being patronizing. "Paternalistic" is code for more insulting terms and I won't let it go unchallenged: responding to feeling with fact is not paternalistic, it's just basic argument. If the progressive movement in general, and the TUCC in particular, would try using a little more fact and a little less feeling, much of this explosion would never have happened. Facts are not the enemy of faith, but they are the enemy of Bullshit. BLC started out with a very good point... white Christian churches were being anything but Christian. Like many honest movements from the 60s, though, it's been co-opted by race haters, conspiracy theorists, and bullshit artists, to the detriment of religious critical thinkers everywhere.
Leaving a church and/or changing to another can be as traumatic as changing jobs or deciding on another big life change. I know this from my experience and listening to others.
I was the member - an active member - of a small church for about 7 years. That church ceased to operate... suddenly... in 2006.
I was devastated. I actually couldn't choke back tears during the leadership meeting where the announcement was made. Others felt quite the same. I've probably been to church 4 times since then, and once it was for a funeral.
Church attendance is a very personal decision. I'm not sure whether or not to feel sympathy for Obama or to dislike him for shedding a 20-year relationship for political purposes.
But I do know one thing... Faith is a central part of life. And for many, church is an important part of living in Faith. Losing that 20-year relationship may cause Obama to lose his step... even if for a moment.
I know what it's like to have a Pastor who says something controversial that makes it to the news (that's a whole other story). I got calls and emails and everything. But I'm also not running for President...
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