In some limited form, I've adapted the rule myself, and it seems to play itself out in some fashion everyday, whether at work, at the gym, or on the cul de sac. The rules is the rules, and I suspect that's why Barack Obama's approval rate among blacks remains sky high. Don't get it twisted, we'll pop sh*t about his various decisions all day in the barbershop (and blogs, which are the new barbershop if you think about it) with reckless abandon. Black folks are very, very critical of Obama, in ways that might shock some of ya'll just visiting. But when some mysterious white dude calls us during dinner, we're gonna take one for the team, and that team is called Obama.
Today, my boss was in town and treated all the team to lunch. Inevitably, the restaurant TV gets turned to ESPN, they're talkin' Tiger, and suddenly we're talkin' Tiger. Well, "talkin' Tiger" isn't accurate. It's more like "talkin' greasy about Tiger". I mean, everyone is absolutely goin' in on this dude, including a co-worker who keeps on mentioning how "he should have just gotten a hooker" to the point that I'm wondering just how this co-worker knows so much about getting hookers.
As we're heading back to the office, it occurs to me: not once did it bug me that we were all talking bad about Tiger. Not even a bit of guilt, or need to defend him. None. Whereas prior discussions with the same group of folks about Mike Vick, Kobe, and hell, even OJ (pre-Vegas) got really, really awkward, for Tiger, I had nothing. Nothing.
I wonder if I'm alone in this. How do ya'll feel?
Question: Does Tiger deserve your "take one for the team" sympathy? Do you generally practice some variation of the "don't talk bad in front of company" rule? Does it sometimes color how you discuss Obama around certain folks, and does it perhaps explain his still high 90% Approval Rating among blacks? White folks and others, do ya'll have similar social quirks, or is there no real need to "take one for the team", when you own the team?
[1] To my white readers, I know, this makes no sense and is a glaring double standard. True, but it is what it is. When you consider the historical context, it's easier to understand. If you still don't understand, might I suggest you click here.
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Nope, Tiger doesnt get that support from me because I feel he tries too hard. Yes,with my black friends we'll talk shit about black celebrities like its nothing. But some of the negative things we say will rarely ever be heard by a person whos not black. I was always taught not to talk about politics with people. I hesitate discuss Obama around anybody who's not black.
Hell, A white person could tell me they voted for him. I'll talk but I'm going to be in PG mode.
I guess Tiger doesn't count because he never considered himself just black, but instead a mix, (not that there is anything wrong with that) but also Tiger has done a good job (at least in the past) of keeping his personal life private, so we really know anything about the guy besides the fact that he's a great golf player; it's hard to defend someone that you never felt any kind of connection to.
Or maybe it's because getting caught cheating is something that is universal and has no single race/ethnicity attached to it, therefore the subject of the conversation was on neutral territory to begin with. I don't know.
I don't think "the rules" help anyone on either side of the color line. They're from another time and the realities around them have shifted.**
@ Sum Black Dude:
"Hell, A white person could tell me they voted for him. I'll talk but I'm going to be in PG mode."
Let's say you heard some white person, who you happened to know had voted for Obama, tearing into the guy on some policy issue in a way that you happened to be in complete agreement with. Would you still "keep it PG"?
**I know, I know. That's very easy for a white person to say. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there whose personal experiences would result in them telling me exactly where I can put those "shifted realities."
I am sure the Cablinasian community has Tiger's back.
@Shady_Grady
I thought the same thing too.
Lol Grady hit it right on the head. Tiger was gone out of his way to disassociate himself from being Black or Asian so don't expect folks those same folks to got to bat for him.
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Far as talking against Tiger; as much we proclaim he disassociate himself from Blacks and Asians, he is black, asian, and white. So somebody talking against him mean no harm to me. I have heard white people talk about the Als' and Jesses' and I told them the same. I tell them this qoute right here.
"He is the same as you and different from me."
Take it how you want to take that.
cosign with shady grady on this one with three exclamation points!!!
i absolutely subscribe to this rule you speak of, avb. and have equally NOT felt any hesitation about dogging out tiger "in front of company" this past week. as soon as he popped off with the cablanasian crap, i wrote him off as ever being among "the protected" in my book. i have never claimed tiger and i have also never been a fan b'c of how he chose to identify him self from jump.
why have a towed such a hard line? b'c it's one thing, if you are biracial to claim both parents. i would not have been mad at him if he chose to call himself "blackasian". or if barack had chosen to consistently identify himself as biracial- i think folks should claim both parents. but it's the fact that tiger dug up all his roots and threw them in the mix- namely the caucasian and native american roots when those are at LEAST 2 or 3 generations removed!! hell, 95% of african americans are black, caucasian and native american!! how the hell else do we have such a variety of skin tones, eye colors and hair textures?!?!? but it's not cute at ALL to go around claiming those roots. we're black dammit. that's something to be PROUD of. we don't need to justify our worth by touting the diversity of our gene pool.
I have never "taken one for the team" in terms of defending someone of my own race--based soley on their race. If they'd said or done something stupid then they deserve what they get.
The only social quirk where I'd take one for the team is if someone where talking sh*t about a family member or close friend. Otherwise, every dumb ass is on their own.
I've never followed this rule unless I felt the black person was receiving unfair treatment compared to a white person under similar circumstances.
THis is interesting... but no, the rule should still stand... this is a cultural war that they would really turn out to take down any man with melanin. The male image is under siege.. to contrast Tigers immoralities with white men in the news.. at least TIger had a relationship with these chicks. white men in the news had hookers and dudes take them out... Tiger is a bad boy and maybe we expect too much of him if we think he is going to be this squeaky clean dude... he's hi-stakes gambling... he's getting with attractive white women... he's abad boy.... do we tell THEM this perspective... no.
I agree with the people who call Tiger out for denying his blackness. He did more than just accept his other ethnicities, he actively distanced himself from being black. He did this for personal gain. By not being the "black" golfer, he appeared less threatening to the white populace who make up the bulk of golf fans. Tiger reaps what he sowed.
Hmm, you know it's kind of a tough one cos it all depends on the circumstance.
In Tiger's case as other posters commented a huge part of why his support hasn't been 'racialized' is cos he's disassociated himself racially so blacks don't feel any obligation to stand up for him in any way. And disassociating himself reaped many rewards for him like Paul said.
I think taking one for the team applies to any group that feels connected in whatever way really but I do agree that for marginalized groups such as blacks that protectiveness heightens.
I do find myself unconsciously defending the 'team' sometimes but that doesn't mean one still can't be objective about the situation.
I don't feel racial kinship with him. IMO he has tried to distance himself from the black part of his heritage. I don't have a problem with mixed people self-identifying, any kids I have with be black and asian. However, Tiger does not seem to want to be considered black *at all* in any way, shape or form and I for one will respcet his wishes.
I co-sign with Shady, Paul, deedee...Tiger has spent the past 14 years saying he is NOT black. He has made a lot of money by saying he is not black. He as sold Buicks in Nebraska for being "post racial." He has avoided questions about how his sponsors treat minority workers because he is NOT black. He has avoided questions about the lack of black golfers in a sport he dominates because he is NOT black. Ask Jim Brown how he feels about Eldrick.
AB, Tiger is "company." He left this family a long time ago.
Tiger is a caublasian, not black he ain't on our team-DUH
While I agree that Tiger has gone out of his way to not be black, some of the reason they are taking so much glee in discovering these affairs is that the public at large viewed him as Black. They have been looking for something, anything to bring him down a peg and finally got it.
That being said, I think this is all just stupid so I am not sure about taking one for the team. I never did in Kobegate either
As far as "taking one for the team" it applies to blood relatives and close friends only. Taking up for someone just because they are black can make you look like an idiot sometimes. I won't excuse stupidity just because the person is black.
Also, I never thought much of Tiger "distancing" himself from the black community. Tiger has done about as much for the black community as Michael Jordan has, and that's not much. Why does Mike get a pass? I never understood why so many blacks took Tiger's position on his ethnicity so personal.
Regarding the President, I only talk about him with relatives. I dont listen to the news reports anymore. But regarding Tiger, I never had the media-connection, so I would talk about his situation with anyone. I agree though with T.Rogers about blacks taking issue with his Cabliasian decision. That's who he actually is! Why the problem? He wants it all! It's not a political decision!
@Anna Renee
He is a man of mixed heritage, but in America he looks like a black man, so that's what he really is. To win the support of white America, he had to constatnly disprove his blackness. He did this by contorting language and coin his clever little "calablasian" term. Tiger does everything in his power not to read as black.
No, I didn't care for Tiger dropping the black part of his heritage.
But if it wasn't for him, I'd have never bought a set of golf clubs in the first place. He gets that much from me.
Palmer and Nicklaus didn't inspire me to buy them. I didn't know about Calvin Peete existed until after Tiger was on the scene.
For real.
EG
I have to say that after a week of hearing the bitterness and judgment, I feel sorry for Tiger. I have no doubt, though, that he will be fine or as fine as any of us get to be when all is said and done.
My parents are from the rural deep south too so I feel you on the first paragraph. It does explain why I almost always feel the need to "check my white friends" when they start laying into Obama, even though I like him less every day.
As far as Tiger I have still defended him but haven't needed to very often. From what I see, he's not catching it anywhere Vick or Obama. Just this morning one dude said by cheating Tiger is just perpetuating another black stereotype. I said I didn't realize cheating on your wife was a black stereotype.
@Paul. I'm being educated! It's true that in America mixed anything with black and you're black! It is a political statement or a solidarity one. I see that one can't deny the black part with out denying blackness, which is self denial in this country! Which is selling out and selling oneself short, which is capitulating! Its very deep! So if Tiger hadn't worked so hard to NOT be black all this time, how would we be responding to him in his crisis? DAYAM, Tiger, you messed up! I think I would feel a lot more for him myself.
I like the direction most black posters are taking with this Tiger issue. Others are talking more about domestic violence by women or celebrity cheaters! We talking about identity! Love it!
Next thing you know Tiger hire Muslim bodyguards
My passport has a lot of stamps on it, and none of them said cablasaian or whatever he called himself on Oprah.
I think it will take him waking up to a burning cross to realize that he is black.
So as for taking one for the team......
HELL NO!!
Would I call myself "cablasian" if I were in Tigers shoes? No. But why is the man expected to play down other parts of his ancestry just because "America" will see him as black? I don't buy that. Tiger never said he wasn't black. He said he wasn't JUST black. And truth be told, the vast majority of black Americans are not just black. But we make a decision to identify ourselves as black. And there is nothing wrong with that. Just know that it is personal decision, and its not always based on the reality of our ethnic backgrounds.
Once again, there are plenty of people in popular culture that we accept as being "authentically" black. And many of them have done little to nothing for the black community. When are we going to start revoking their negro passes?
That picture is so cute. *chuckles*
Anyway, I wasn't raised this way. Frankly, I don't care what race or sex you are, I won't bite my tongue. I definitely believe in freedom of speech. Just because Tiger and I share something (the fact that we're both black) doesn't mean that he represents me.
This is an issue because he has worked so hard to deny his black side. It's like the people who say they're not black but mixed. It's as if black is something to run away from or deny or grudgingly accept. That's why this is such an issue. This is what I am seeing and feeling behind his Cablasian statement. I think that people feel it's further accentuated by the people he chooses to marry and socialize with. The same goes for people like Soledad O'Brien. People who understandably want to accept all sides of themselves verbally but seem to deny a part of themselves through their associations. It seems inauthentic.
I'm sorry guys, this is one of the most racist threads evar.
Maybe that sounds too harsh, but I come here in part to open my eyes to a group of Americans with a cultural history and experience I can only learn about through dialog with real people. You guys enrich my worldview, broaden my perspective, and I thank you for it. I also come here in the hope that I can reflect back to you how these ideas and attitudes are viewed through the lens of my own life experience... I guess maybe I operate with the conceit that at least some of you are interested.
I wonder if this attitude I've read today from some of you, this very exclusionary and divisive attitude, is why I so often see commenters talking about "white people" as though we all think the same things, have the same experiences, the same prejudices? Perhaps because you're comfortable labelling people "authentically black", you assume that the same thing must be happening in white society, or that it's OK to project arbitrary generalizations onto white folks too?
There is no analog to this in mainstream white America. But you know where you can find this type of thinking... this EXACT type of thinking? Neo-nazi white power skinheads.
Basically, you guys are calling him a race traitor. How does that feel? Does it bother you, to know that you're on the same page as David Duke, that the Ayran Nation would agree with you on this?
I really don't know what more to say.
@Mahogany,
You do know Tiger was raised in Orange County, Calfornia right? It is one of the least blackest counties in California. His entire life since early childhood has been submerged in the world of golf. Once again, another arena with little to no black people. So now as an adult he is supposed to switch up and put all these black people around him? Why? That has not been his personal experience.
Is Tiger supposed to go out of his way to be like Allen Iverson so he can be accepted by some blacks? If his wife was a black woman would his serial infidelity be a lesser offense? If the women on the side were all black women would Tiger then get some credit?
The tone of some of these comments is insane.
@ Spool:
I would disagree that this "exact type of thinking" can be found in Nazi/White Supremacist circles. It's coming from a different mental place----perhaps the same mental continent (clannishness/tribalist reflex), but not the same country. One is offensive, the other basically defensive. (Although I suppose the supremacists think that THEY'RE the ones playing defense.)
But I'm surprised by some of these comments because earlier threads have taken a much less unforgiving tone when subjects like this came up.
The importance placed on "authenticity" is coldblooded in any context. You're right that whites don't break it down along racial lines. But they have plenty of other ways. Culturally, religiously, politically, etc.---there are plenty of litmus tests given to people. It's ugly and cruel, and it never accomplishes anything positive.
To those who are reluctant to discuss Obama around palefaces----I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Skim any left/liberal blog. You'll find the mostly white commentators tearing into him just the way they tore into Bush (And Pelosi. And Reid. And Diane Feinstein. etc. etc.) It's no different save for the anger of dashed hopes filling the space formerly occupied by no hopes.
In that situaion, would you still feel the internal stirring to "take one for the team" even against clear evidence that no one is trying to attack "the team"?
I've learned a lot of ugly things about this country over the last two years, things I didn't really know (as much) before. But that doesn't change the fact that the "team" conditioning you speak of is not relevant to many whites anymore.
BLACK PEOPLE,
Are you all serious, really?!?!?
I can NOT believe that so many black people still think like this...sigh!
There were many things we were taught by our southern raised parents, due to their lack of education and/or exposure, that were just wrong!!
For example, "The way most of us was raised eating is TOTALLY UNHEALTHY"!
Simply put: Er'thang your parents taught you was NOT right...sorry!
Now, as adults we (SHOULD) know better so we MUST do better!
***I'm in the AMEN corner with EVERYTHING T. Rogers has said***
@Disa. I agree with you on some points but there are other things we were taught by our parents that could save our lives in racist situations. I guess black folks arent the monolith that we're made out to be and white folks arent the monolith that we make them out to be!
@Spool
I think you might wanna fall back from tossing out words like "racist" to describe your read on some of the comments here.
"I come here in part to open my eyes to a group of Americans with a cultural history and experience I can only learn about through dialog with real people."
Well, these are real people, with real experiences and real opinions. It seems to me like you only want to practice cultural anthropology when the results are cuddly and comfortable. Sorry, this isn't a "comfortable" issue. But this doesn't make commenters "racist". I think you should recant that statement.
Or better yet, go back to the post, scroll all the way to the bottom, and click that link in the footnotes.
@ Disa
Both of my parents were highly educated and highly accomplished professionals. This has nothing to do with parental education or exposure. It had everything to do with them dealing with, yet still moving forward in what was (at the time) still a very outwardly racist state/county. I've adopted (as I noted) a very limited version of this myself. I can't speak for anyone else's parents, but that's my story.
I believe you're reading waaaay too deeply into my "take one for the team" comment. Nobody is saying stick up for any old Negro, just cause he black. Wrong is wrong. I think (at least for me), I try to be the voice of reason in such situations when I feel the person is being treated unfairly just cause they black. Mike Vick might be such an example (he was clearly made an example of, although he was clearly wrong).
@AB:
I'm sorry, I can't fall back on this one. I'm reflecting today, and calling somebody a race traitor is no different from calling him not authentically black. In fact, you could easily find white supremacists calling Tiger's wife a race traitor!
The idea comes from the same place - that the race must have a single cultural definition and it must be defended from those of the race who don't conform just as strenuously as it must be from other races who assault it.
I know you suggested that this 'a black thing', but I gotta say: I might not understand why the attitude exists, but I understand the attitude pretty well. Also, no special interest in comfort here. I like to grapple with the hard questions as much as anybody you'll meet.
Also, I have to point out that I don't think your post rises to that level... but some of these comments have. I gotta call it like I see it.
@marbles:
Disagree with you also... white supremacists and black separatist fringe groups often see eye to eye on issues of race. It's pretty disturbing, to be honest.
@ Spool:
I wasn't talking about black separatist groups when I said that. If I had been, you'd be absolutely right. They're a mirror image of their low-melanin counterparts. (and unlike said low-melanin counterparts, they have a public profile here in New York. Now and then I'll see them trying to brainwash the teens in the neighborhood I work in. The longer the teens stand there and nod their heads, the more depressing the sight is.
If you can imagine Bill O'Reilly becoming a religious fanatic, swallowing about 10 pounds of steroids and running outside to scream in the street, that's kinda what they're like.)
The comments here, while clashing with our understanding of the world, hardly approach that level. =)
@Spool
I cannot speak for the other commentators on this site, but my issue with Tiger is his general ignorance on the issue of race. Tiger has asserted that he wishes to be called "Cablinasian" because he is not "just black." He is many other things. I hate to break it to Tiger, but most of us are not "just black" we are other things. It would be almost impossible to find a black person in the country whose family was here pre-1940 who is 100% african. Most of us are at least part Caucasian--Kizzy and Chicken George weren't the only ones, if you get my drift. For the first time in his life, Tiger must be told that he is not special.
I don't hate Tiger, I don't believe that one race is superior to another, I don't hate the other races Tiger chooses to identify with. There is nothing "racist" in pointing out to Mr. Woods that there is nothing new under the sun.
/s/
MsCablinEsquire2004
This is one of those discussions that truly illustrates the generational shift within the African-American community. I look forward to similiar conversations.
On Tiger Woods:
I have to admit I was taken aback by the whole "Cablinasian" thing primilary because it was his Black father who I always saw at his side. After I saw he also had a close relationship with his mother, and later learned where he grew up that I understood his point of view a little better.
I think it is difficult for many of us in the African-American community to understand those who self-identify as biracial when we have relatives who are
"lighter", "brighter" and "damn nearer whiter" (than say Tiger)who choose to identify as Black.
Like White folks who complain about why President Obama is called Black, we in the African-American community also need to come to terms with the fact that biracial folks are now demanding to be allowed to be identified as they choose.
On do you generally practice some variation of the "don't talk bad in front of company" rule?:
Full disclosure, I am a middle-aged African-American male, with that said, I'm almost positive on some if not many levels I do.
The fact that to this day whenever there is a major crime on television and my first thought is "please don't let them be Black" tells me I think and feel this way.
But I also feel I have every right to. To me every since Bill Cosby "aired our dirty little secert" as he put it, EVERYONE (White, Latin, Asian,etc.) feel they have a god given right to discuss, comment on and provide their opinion on EVERY element of of the African-American community. From our hair to who we vote for to the problems we as a collective have (just try reading the Criags List politics-usa forum sometime)everyone feels a need to judge us.
Add to the fact that what is said is rarely positive and I hope you will understand why I don't talk bad in front of company.
White people have to bring guns to a tea party and verbally abuse White politicans before elements of their community are discussed to the degree in which our community is dissected and even then it is made clear that those gun carrying protest attendees are but a small portion of the White community.
Hay I've found the fountain of youth, Amilia Earharts plan and a picture of Tiger Wood talking to black people. I did really.
WTF?! Support? He can go get support from all these white girls he's been bangin left right n centre. I mean come on, i was all ready to play the "he's a young man (only 33) celeberity ofcourse he's going cheat, give the man a break" card...until i found out all 9 of his jump offs were white.
Clearly white America is supporing him enough.
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