Tuesday, November 3, 2009

AB.com Guest Post - Can A Black Republican Win In Congress?!?

[Editor's Note: Today is election day across the country, and today also marks a first at AB.com, as we're running an exclusive interview. Can a Black Republican win a seat in Congress? It hasn't happened since JC Watts. Resident Conservative, Spool32, accepted my challenge, and reached out to the campaigns of two Black Republicans running for office about the travails of being both Black, and Conservative in post-racial America. I consider this our first real forray into investigative journalism (ok, Grand Hu$tle Week was first), and hope ya'll give the interviews and candidates an open ear. As usual, show our best some love.]

It's just a fact: Republicans catch a lot of grief for being out of touch with the minority communities. The Bush White House was historic in its efforts to promote blacks and hispanics in the Executive, but it was the exception – no black American has represented the GOP in Congress since 2002.

[Ed: SeeqPod is toast, but I figured out a way to use YouTube vids to do the same thing. AverageSoundTrack™ is back baybee!!! Crank dat' volume!]



All that might change in 2010. Behind the scenes the GOP is recruiting minority candidates, often from the military, and Congressional races are looking more diverse across the nation. I wanted to find out what two of these candidates thought of race and the GOP, so I called their campaigns to ask some pointed questions on race and their experiences as a black Americans running on the Republican ticket.

I spoke first with Lou Huddleston. You can see his bio, so I won't go into details. Running for NC's 8th district, Huddleston is a retired Army Colonel and a veteran of the Afghan war, with a political science degree from Morgan State and a solid business pedigree alongside volunteer work with Habitat for Humanity. You can tell he's a good candidate by the way he stayed on-message... Huddleston avoided most of my questions in the official email I received, focusing on his opponent Larry Kissell, and on general issues:
“We all know times are tough for everyone so it is time to stop the silly partisanship, the political blame games, and the outrageous spending and get down to the basics of doing what's right for the American people. We need new jobs, not new energy taxes. We need to help home owners, hard working folks and farmers and not bail out giant corporations. We need economic growth, not government growth. We need to protect our country from terrorists, not weaken our military. We need common sense and well thought-out fixes to complicated national problems, not massive government takeovers like we're witnessing with our health care system.“
This is pretty standard campaign-speak, but it didn't really get to the heart of what I was hoping to learn. Given the general perceptions of racism in the GOP, what was it like to be black and running as a Republican? Huddleston had only this to say on the subject:
“As for me being an African-American Republican candidate for Congress, in my view, is not an issue in this race, or, to voters from either party. While some may vote for or against a candidate because of the color of his skin, I believe that most citizens will cast their vote based on the qualifications, values, experience and issue priorities of candidates. That’s what I hear and sense out on the campaign trail.”
Les Phillip was a different story. After a couple of emails with his campaign manager, I sat down for a half an hour interview with Mr. Phillip. An immigrant from Trinidad-Tobago, Phillip came to the US as a boy. He graduated from Annapolis, became a pilot, and got into politics after working the private sector and raising a family.



Here's what he had to say about race and the GOP:

spool32: Thanks for talking with me today. I wanted to start off by asking in what ways you feel race is relevant in a GOP primary.

Phillip: I forget who said it, but “Blacks are like the canary in the coal mine.” It hits us first, and then it goes to the wider population. The poor education that we received... education is now becoming equally bad for everyone. Jobs – jobs are not a black issue anymore, it's an issue whether you're white or black, college educated or not.

spool32: Many accuse black Republican candidates of de-emphasizing race because they fear white GOP voters will stay away from the polls. Of course, the implicit suggestion here is that the GOP is essentially racist. Can you give some examples of experiences you've had running on the GOP ticket in Alabama that speak to this accusation?

Phillip: I don't de-emphasize who I am. If you come to a fundraisesr or see me on TV you're gonna know who I am [laughing], so I don't de-emphasize that. I just think there are a lot more issue out there that affect America as a whole. One of the things I do point out is the illegitimate birthrate. 40, 50 years ago it used to be 4% for white, 8% for blacks... now it's approaching 50% for white families and 75% for blacks... you go to the jails right now and you'll find most of the people, both black and white but predominantly the black Americans, come from single parent households. There's a direct correlation between illegitimacy and the rise of young black men in jail, and it's now becoming an issue for everyone. A lot of people expect this to be a black issue, but it's not a black or white issue now, it's an American issue. The disintegration of the family is affecting the entire American society.

And the solutions of a husband and a wife raising a family are applicable to everybody. Democrats keep pouring out this “Republicans are racist” but blacks as a whole live our lives very conservatively. If we really took a hard look at the Democratic Party we'd find that the things that they hold important are not what we hold important... I don't believe the Republican party reflects racism any more or less than the Democratic party. We just have really bad PR.

spool32: How much importance do you think should be placed on simply recruiting minority faces to the party's slate of candidates? Do you think it plays a part in drawing minority voters to the polls?

Phillip: There are people who are going out and recruiting minorities into the GOP, but as far as assistance campaigning... you have to do it on your own. Going forward I think a lot of us have just been aggressive and seen the need... I'll be blunt: a lot of [the leadership] are in disarray and don't really understand what's going on out here. A lot of us are military guys, we're not attorneys you know. It's a difference between sitting around thinking about the process and actually going out there and doing it. Some of us in the district have been saying “we need to be reaching out to younger kids, to the 16yr olds” and they couldn't understand why... in 2010 some of these 16yr olds will be voting for me! But the Democrats understand this pretty well. When these kids are young, we need to teach American principles. They're saying “That guy's rich, it's unfair... you need to help us take his money.” We need to be teaching them “You know what, that guy's rich... let me show you how to get there.”

spool32: Do you think having minority representation makes it easier to get a fair hearing for Republican values inside those communities?

Phillip: Yes. The one thing I blame Republicans for in the last few years is that they have a foregone conclusion that the minority vote is dead. Yet, you look at Lamar Alexander in Tennessee... he gets somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-35% of the minority vote. The reason is that he started a conversation years before, so that people got to know him, know what he stands for.

Any Republican that gets 25% of the minority vote... they're being responsive to their people, and you can't beat 'em.

spool32: Inside your own district, what's the most critical issue?

Jobs, jobs, and more jobs. Here in the 5th district, we do a lot of defense work. The number one job of the government is to provide for the common defense, and that's what we do here. Some of these weapon systems are extremely complex and they take eight, ten years to develop... if we decide to stand still, in eight or ten years they'll be better than we are. Since we don't want to maintain an Army of 10 million or a Navy with 1500 ships, we have to use our technology to keep us ahead of the game.

spool32: What's your opinion of the the 'birther' conspiracy suggesting Barack Obama is not a 'natural born citizen'?

Phillip: [laughing] I think unless somebody can come up with something concrete, we're wasting energy and we have a lot more pressing problems to deal with. There are enough things to oppose him on than worrying about that!

spool32: what do you think is the most important thing the GOP, the national party, can do to increase their credibility with minority communities?

Phillip: To start, they have to tell the history of the Republican party, and the party did not start with Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan. They need to go back to Frederick Douglas, one of the founders of the party, and teach the history. The Democratic party was the slavery party, and we need to tell the story of how the switch came. In some cases Democrats just rewrote the storyline and Republicans, through ignorance, arrogance, and a little racism, never counteracted that.

Today, they have to reach out. I don't say reach out in the form of giveaways, but just engage people like they are people, and treat 'em with respect. Now, do they have to go out of their way? Yes, because they screwed up. As simple as that, they screwed up by letting the other guys have the battlefield. That's the biggest thing the GOP has to do, they have to get out of their skins and engage, and unfortunately that will require a change in leadership because a lot of these guys... it's not a racist thing, they're just passive. Racism from the GOP is not the right word... it's a lack of aggressiveness and a lack of principle.

spool32: Speaking to a national audience of center-left readers, some of whom may live in your district, what would you say to them to try and get their vote?

Phillip: If you look at my campaign, you'll see I'm not running for the right or the left, but to bring the power back to the people instead of the government. If you believe that the people are the ones who should control the government, and not the other way around, look at my campaign. There are other solutions to our problems than having the government involved... there are big government people out there, but I'm not their guy. But if you want to join with other people and seek better solutions... have a look at my campaign. You'll like what you see.

Question: In general, does a minority face make you more likely to listen, even if you don't end up agreeing? What do you think about Les Phillip's 'canary in the coal mine' idea? Do you think a history lesson is part of the solution to the GOP's PR problems

66 AverageComments™:

Shady_Grady said...

The canary in the coal mine idea is quite accurate. I don't think a history lesson means very much. Black people know the history.

There are plenty of conservative or moderate Black voters who might be amenable to Republican outreach and will or do vote Republican if and when it makes sense.

Unfortunately for the Republicans, since at least the Goldwater campaign, the Republicans have gone pretty much all in as either the "white" party or at least the "not black" party.

Whether it's because of public policy that is unfavorable to the interests of most black people, harsh rhetoric that is either tone deaf or blatantly hostile to blacks, or intellectual alliances with the likes of Charles Murray, John Derbyshire and others, who argue that blacks are simply innately intellectually and culturally inferior, the modern Republican Party and conservative movement is not going to attract a lot of black support.

The Republican party needs to drop the most reactionary elements of its primarily Southern base and run candidates like Edward Brooke, William Milliken, Nelson Rockefeller---in other words people that appear to be sane. =)

Constructive Feedback said...

AverageBro:

I took you at your word in which you stated previously that you were not as I had painted you upon my brief introduction to your blog some weeks ago.

Here are the questions that jumped out at me from your interview.

[quote]Republicans catch a lot of grief for being out of touch with the minority communities.

Given the general perceptions of racism in the GOP, what was it like to be black and running as a Republican?

Of course, the implicit suggestion here is that the GOP is essentially racist.

what do you think is the most important thing the GOP, the national party, can do to increase their credibility with minority communities?

Speaking to a national audience of center-left readers, some of whom may live in your district, what would you say to them to try and get their vote?
[/quote]

DO YOU MIND IF I REFRAME THE ISSUE? (I am a RIGHT OF CENTER - Independent. My goal is to - Push The Democratic Party Out Of Our Racial Nucleus and Out To The Periphery Of Our Racial Consciousness as Black people. The separation between the "American Political Domain" and the "Cultural Consciousness Domain" is paramount. There are too many "Democrats who are Black" who enjoy unfettered access within our secure space as they work, unfettered, on behalf of the Democrats.)

AverageBro:

At a time when EVERY SINGLE INSTITUTION WITHIN THE BLACK COMMUNITY is controlled by Progressives and Democrats who are favorable to the Black community - HOW DO YOU ask the Republican Blacks - Why THEIR PARTY is out of touch with Black America?

AB - Worse than an entity that has been REPUDIATED is the entity who's FINGER PRINTS ARE ON THE STEERING WHEEL. The Black community suffers from "Voter Nullification". There is a pattern of looking past the FAILURES OF THE LOCAL DEMOCRATS on our way to the polls and voting to purge NATIONAL REPUBLICANS....because they have failed.

Indeed Bush's Party was deposed from power BECAUSE a sufficient amount of people saw them has having FAILED. In the Black Community - the forces that have gained power over our institutions after promising that their ascension to power would bring forth not only remain in power but they have GAINED MORE TURF - despite these failures to support our PERMANENT INTERESTS.

There is the key AB - PERMANENT INTERESTS.

Instead of notating the lack of popularity or the popularity of a party - Where is your measure of the DELIVERY of our "Permanent Interests" by the machine that is in power?

As a "Left Of Center" person - who might interview a Democrat - do you frame your line of questions as you have with these Black Republicans?

Examples:
* "You party controls every institution seat in Black America sir....... convince me that you have earned an extension in power?"

* "If not YOUR PARTY....WHO should our community hold accountable for the current local economic conditions that have persisted while you were in power?"

* "4 years ago I recorded you making what turns out to be largely the same set of promises to our community IF we support you. Today I have the stats in hand to show that we are still grieving over the same issues. Ms Representative - could you detail why we should believe you this time? I am a progressive but I don't detect any progress under your leadership"

Clearly, AB - a "better set of questions" in which your PERMANENT INTERESTS are retained as your focus are needed.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]It's often said that Black folks are perhaps the most Conservative people in America on social issues.[/quote]

AB - I am not sure if I addressed your "Republican" post from April if it would register with you for a response.

I don't agree with you on this one.
You make note of "Black Conservatism" on Gay Marriage.

Let's move beyond "sentiments" and instead focus upon ENFORCEMENTS.

Please detail what Black folks have done - BESIDES VOTING - on actively expressing their/our OPPOSITION TO SAME SEX MARRIAGE?

Are there any active protests against such? Is there a rainbow of colors at such public demonstrations?

Ironically I have written that "Black Folks Are TEA PARTY" members - its just that WE did not go to Washington DC in "9/12". Instead one can take a tour of various city council meetings and county board meetings recently when sales or property taxes where threatened to be increased.

Might it be that the peer pressure AGAINST any "well meaning Negro" to stand next to a Conservative Republican at a protest keeps us from strong protestation in support of our PERMANENT INTERESTS?

In your story from April 2009 I saw you do what I label "Keeping Your Adversaries on Trial" as you listed WHY Black folks don't vote Republican

Do you plan to do a "sister" story on "Why Black folks vote Democrat DESPITE our PERMANENT INTEREST not being addressed"?

I bet that you could make a list of FAVORABLE OPERATIVES who fortify the favorable view, despite these failures.

See here as to why:

http://withintheblackcommunity.blogspot.com/2009/10/functional-map-of-black-establishment.html

Daedalus said...

To Constructive Criticism: Amen.

Answers:

A. The minority faces make no difference to me. I remember back in 1980, Ronald Regan lowered taxes on my father who was black. Jesse did nothing for my family that year.

A. The Canary in the coal mine" idea while not completely accurate is however, a very powerful metaphor that could be applied to other issues like illegitimacy and divorce.

A. History lesson? Black people ignore history because the truth does not give enough lattitude to construct the excuses necessary to justify their self-destructive behaviors. In the past I have presented concrete evidence contrary to what black people beleive in print, from traditional news and informations sources and they still wont beleive what they read. Its almost like telling a five year old theres no Santa Claus. You cant fight ignorance on that scale and thinking you can is kind of silly. A quote from Star-Trek 6 sums this up: Spock says: "Jim, there dying" Kirk replies: "Let them die."

History lesson? Please. That war, to paraphrase Harry Reid, is lost.

Now, before y'all get started on these men and savage them ask yourselves the following:

How many people have they killed? How many of our women have they called bitches in public. How many car jackings? How many of our women have they turned into whores? How many pounds of weed and coke have they sold to us? How many rapes? Most importantly, do they use vocoders?

Nope.

They are not the problem nor a blight on our community. All they did was disagree with some of the things you beleive. Please direct ire for those who actually harm us.

spool32 said...

@shady: I agree with you in part. I think Les Phillip does as well... what did you think of his words to the national GOP leadership?

@constructive:
capslock, man... it's killing your point.
Also, point of order - I came up with the questions and conducted the interview.

AverageBro.com said...

@ ConsFeed

Damnit, Spool stole all my glory on this one.

Chill with the bold and CAPS, man. You must not have noticed the "AB.com Guest Post" title, the word "Spool32" mentioned 352 times in the article, the fact that the guest author is a white Conservative male, and that your point about "lack of balance" on this site is severely undermined by this minor oversight.

Cool it, please.

You asked for "balance", did you not? I had our resident Conservative reach out to the campaigns of two prominent Black Republicans running for public office.

What more could you want?

@Daedalus

Even if I don't agree with what you're saying, I'm just happy to see you back on the boards here.

Stick around, please.

Shady_Grady said...

@Spool: I agree with Les Phillip in so far as the national GOP should reach out and rebrand. I don't think it is healthy nationally for the Democrats to be considered the "minority" party or for the Republicans to be considered the "white" party.

I think we've discussed before on this blog that with Obama's election the Republican Party would have to decide which way it was going to turn. Pat Buchanan and Steve Sailer -not Republican party leaders but certainly conservative icons- have argued that the Republicans need to explicitly go after the white vote and not be afraid of branding themselves a "white" party. They feel that such a course is the last best chance of arresting US demographic changes that if not halted could be disastrous for Republicans for years to come. Presumably Phillip would disagree with that approach.

It will take a lot of Phillips' type people (of all races) across the nation to rebrand and change the party. Right now the Republican Party is in image (and reality??) close to neo-confederates. If that side can be , maybe not purged but certainly subdued, I think that Republicans will be competitive nationally again, among both whites and blacks.

I wish Phillip well. I would just have one last quibble. Black people today don't care that Lincoln was a Republican. They do care that the southern Dixiecrats and Democrats of the post-war era migrated to the Republican party and recast it in their image. That's the history that Phillip will need to talk about.

There's an interesting book "Running on Race" by Jeremy Mayer that discusses racial politics in Presidential elections.

Constructive Feedback said...

[QUOTE]You asked for "balance", did you not? I had our resident Conservative reach out to the campaigns of two prominent Black Republicans running for public office.

What more could you want?
[/quote]

A HA!!!!!!

I didn't ask you for "Balance".
I asked for (darn it. I was just about to capitalize it):

Proportionality!!!!!

If your house is filled with rats and you keep hammering the few roaches that are also infecting your home - the one's that the rats did not devour - Isn't it fair to question the logic of your focus and your intentions?

Those who want a "pest free" house that is well managed will focus less on their aversion to roaches that they were indoctrinated with as a child and instead make measure of their rat infestation. More to the point they will revisit what the first rat they let into the door had promised them if they were let in out of the cold.

Proportionality brother!!!

Do you see that the tacit function of those who "Keep their ideological adversaries on trial" is that they allow those who they favor gain unchecked power. In fact they become this entities foot soldiers.

The problem is - that since they have fused - yielding all of their key institutions to this external force they will be loathed to make demands of their "permanent friends", troubling them with notions about the "permanent interests" that have been unmet.

AB - I see our community's problem as a (sorry) HUMAN RESOURCES MANAGEMENT problem.

We simply have too many professional and educated Black managers to allow this scheme to continue.

Management science has it that you identify your resources and you impress upon them what the goals are and you apply tried and true management tools upon them in your quest to achieve (sorry) DIRECTED OUTCOMES.

I get the strong suspicion that the prevailing Black Establishment and their Snarling Fox White Liberal backers want to make our people "In Receipt Of Benefit" rather than developing our key competencies as a community so that we can identify the standard of living we desire and then orient:

* The Schools that we now control in support of this effort

* The Community Rules/ Government Law Enforcement in the places we call our own

* The Social Mores that impact our health outcomes and relationships

* And most importantly - our Homes and the adults that are present to mold our children, making sure that no dysfunction thoughts and behavior that may have been developed in Slavery are able to "jump the generational synapse" into the children who will be the consciousness of our future.

Constructive Feedback said...

AB - plain and simple it is at strategic mistake for us to seek to solve our problems in the "American Political domain".

So much of our problems as a people reside in the "Cultural Consciousness domain". Much of this has been abandoned in the fight in the other domain.

Again - I ask you to

1) Identify a reasonable list of PERMANENT INTERESTS

(I have observed:

* Safe Streets so that we as a people can build strong communities absent fear

* Quality Schools - so that our young people today can assume the professional and technical services jobs that our community needs to retain our standard of living tomorrow


* Thriving Local Economies - so our people can create market places for trade and develop employment to allow our people to express their brainpower and develop themselves

* Healthy Lifestyle Outcomes - where the social mores communicated to our people allow them to live long, disease free lives)

2) Construct a framework of Methods by which these Interests might be obtained

3) Develop a management organization by which these can be propagated to those who are interested in CHANGE

4) Develop a TRANSPARENT system by which to measure the EFFECTIVENESS of these methods

5) Prune those which have failed. Support and propagate those that have proven to work

6) Rinse and Repeat


AB - the African-American has the same problem that faces many African-Nations. The leadership of the entity in question has no intention of yielding their power to a more TRANSPARENT force upon which they are held accountable to the permanent interests of the group.

I keep hearing folks talk about hour our 'culture' was stolen during slavery.

I never hear these same people mention how a culture was developed in the first place.

A culture is developed based on the fundamental needs of the people at some point in time. When our ancestors were "hunters and gatherers" they learned cooperative hunting lest they all starve.

We are facing the need to regenerate a 'functional culture'.

Instead, the void that we have has been filled with partisans who operate in the "American Political domain". Their goal is to keep our people fed in exchange for our votes.

We need people who have only DEVELOPMENT of COMPETENCIES within our people as their primary mandate.

This is why as this force has grown in power - our communities are no more capable of:

* Medicating ourselves per our needs

* Employing ourselves per our needs

* Educating ourselves per our needs

and sadly

* Defending ourselves from the new predator who causes some of us to cower in our own houses.

The fact that this predator came "from us" is more proof that our "Cultural Consciousness" is askew.

(Did this sound like a rant from someone who wants you to vote Republican as is so frequently claimed by my ideological adversaries?)

Paul said...

The Republicans need to get back to their core values if they want to win. Right now, they have the same fiscal/spending policy as the Ds (spend more to get more votes). They need to return to the Goldwaterian/Buckleyian view of low taxes, low spending, low Federal intervention in state affairs. They also need to stop pandering to the Religious Right. If the Rs came out for legalized sports' gambling, prostitution, and soft drugs as revenue generators and cut income taxes, they'd likely do a lot better than when they attack gays and evolution.

Paul said...

The Republicans need to get back to their core values if they want to win. Right now, they have the same fiscal/spending policy as the Ds (spend more to get more votes). They need to return to the Goldwaterian/Buckleyian view of low taxes, low spending, low Federal intervention in state affairs. They also need to stop pandering to the Religious Right. If the Rs came out for legalized sports' gambling, prostitution, and soft drugs as revenue generators and cut income taxes, they'd likely do a lot better than when they attack gays and evolution.

spool32 said...

That sounds pretty exclusionary and black-separatist, Constructive. Employing, educating, and medicating "yourselves"?

I'd argue that engagement with and participation in groups and political parties that have the community's longterm best interests at heart is the better solution. As Phillip said, "You see that guy, he's rich... let me show you how to get there".

Marbles said...

@ Shady:

It just doesn't look like that's happening. As I'm sure you know, my home state's northern ice cap is in a li'l turmoil right now because of a conservative coup-in-the-making that's being nationally endorsed by the likes of Palin. The line between the the fringe and mainstream right, already blurry as hell, is fading ever faster. (When NEWT GINGRICH is being villified by the activist right, you know things are getting wacky.)
Personally, I'm worried over where this is going. Palin and her ilk are riding a wave of simmering tribal anger. If the GOP continues to purge itself of those who don't want to play tribal games, things could get pretty damn ugly down the road (ESPECIALLY if the Democrats continue to be bungling fools who rarely deliver).

@ Constructive:

I've looked at your blog a few times. While I get where you're coming from overall, I've never understood your fixation on the Democratic Party's local failures in light of your insistence elsewhere that politics cannot cure the ills you're talking about. The two arguments don't seem to go together.

@ Spool:

Well done, Mr. 32.

AverageBro.com said...

@ ConstructiveFeedBack (?!?)

I think you're barking up the entirely wrong tree, based on a couple of posts you might have read here. AB.com in no way advocates "us to seek to solve our problems in the "American Political domain".

If you've seen any such evidence of this here, do share.

The site's main purpose is The AverageBro Challenge. It is, has been, and always will be. If you've yet to read my manifesto, please do so before you keep typing yourself into early carpal tunnel.

http://www.averagebro.com/2007/10/take-averagebro-challenge.html

Again, wrong tree.

I'm an un-affiliated voter, something I did after the Obama election for various reasons too numerous to outline on my lunch break. I am an unabashed Liberal, I make no apologies for this. But on the local level, I have, and will continue to vote for the right person, R, D, or I. Doesn't matter.

If you have some beef with me, or what you might assume to by my political views, please email me personally offline. The last thing I want to do is have some pointless pissing match take away from the countless hours of work that Spool dedicated to interviewing candidates and writing this post. I don't think your comments have anything to do with today's subject at hand, rather some blanket assessment hurled at folks whom you think carry water for the Dems (whom I bash here when they do wrong) just as much as you do for the GOP (ditto).

How's THAT for Constructive Feedback?

RiPPa said...

"There's a direct correlation between illegitimacy and the rise of young black men in jail"

BULLSHIT!

"There are people who are going out and recruiting minorities into the GOP, but as far as assistance campaigning... you have to do it on your own. Going forward I think a lot of us have just been aggressive and seen the need... I'll be blunt: a lot of [the leadership] are in disarray and don't really understand what's going on out here."

I wonder why? Oh, I forgot, it's all about bad PR and not the racist strategies employed in campaigns, right?

"They're saying “That guy's rich, it's unfair... you need to help us take his money.”

MORE BULLSHIT!

"The one thing I blame Republicans for in the last few years is that they have a foregone conclusion that the minority vote is dead."

Could it be a direct result of that whole "Southern Strategy" thing?

"Yet, you look at Lamar Alexander in Tennessee... he gets somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-35% of the minority vote."

As a resident of Tennessee myself, I wonder if he would get this percentage if he were to run a racist ad if his opponent were Black (Think Harold Ford Jr.)

"To start, they have to tell the history of the Republican party, and the party did not start with Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan. They need to go back to Frederick Douglas, one of the founders of the party, and teach the history. The Democratic party was the slavery party, and we need to tell the story of how the switch came. In some cases Democrats just rewrote the storyline and Republicans, through ignorance, arrogance, and a little racism, never counteracted that."

Yeah, teach them about the RNC National Conference in 1964 too. Yep, teach them what happened after that. Misguided Negroes I tell ya!

"Racism from the GOP is not the right word... it's a lack of aggressiveness and a lack of principle."

Principle, huh...that's what they call it now?

"I'm not running for the right or the left, but to bring the power back to the people instead of the government."

More bullshit. He just plainly stated just what the major industry is in his district -- military jobs. Duh, are the people going to attract competitive corporate interests so as to provide more jobs? This guy should have been interviewed by me. People are not worried about gov't running their lives. They are more concerned with just how corporations run the gov't. But I guess when you believe in "free market" economics and corporate welfare by the way of tax cuts, you'll run that type of rhetoric. Yeah, tell the people that bullshit - the smart ones like myself; we don't believe you - you need more people!

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]That sounds pretty exclusionary and black-separatist, Constructive. Employing, educating, and medicating "yourselves"?[/quote]

spool32:

In Vine City Atlanta - at the corner of "Rev Joseph E Lowery Blvd and Rev Joseph E Boone Dr" - the most deadly block in Atlanta you will find SEPARATISM.

In North Philadelphia where the only White folks who dare to go into some parts are White Cops - you will find SEPARATISM

Ditto - SouthSide Chicago, Trinidad in DC, East Baltimore and damned near all of East St Louis

PLEASE NOTE - however - that I said COMMUNITY rather than BLACK PEOPLE exclusively.

If someone comes into a community and adopts the stated framework - there is nothing racial about this.

In fact I REPUDIATE the attempts by the "Psuedo Black Nationalists.....with a MySpace Page" who try to make the key unifying glue for their movement to be Anti-White, Resentment based rhetoric.

The worst possible situation they can be in is being left ALL ALONE after having failed to build up infrastructure.

My message varies differently.

I call for the build up of the competency of our communities.

They often call for masking the weaknesses of our community by focusing on EXTERNAL battles which only have short term benefits of keeping Black folks angry, riled up and asking "What do I need to do to strike out at them?"

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote] I've never understood your fixation on the Democratic Party's local failures in light of your insistence elsewhere that politics cannot cure the ills you're talking about. The two arguments don't seem to go together.[/quote]

A Ha!!!!!!
Key flaw in your observation.

My focus is upon the SOLD OUT BLACK OPERATIVES who have unfettered access to our Racial Nucleus. In as much as THEY are selling the "Democratic Party as the great elixir to Black folks" most of my time is spent building up frameworks by which to transparently measuring the results that these operatives have rendered.

Secondly I focus on making mention of what Black folks have set out to address with our "Political Activism" (quality education, reduction in "Dead Black people" bleeding in the street, etc) and then notate that despite having followed all that these so called leaders have asked us to do - the same basic problems exist.

I am not understanding what you see that is inconsistent?

I am noting that the people who told us to take the Blue Pill because the Red pill will kill us now need to be held accountable for the cures that they promised us if we take the Blue pill. We are now addicted to this blue pill.

Marbles - in as much as some of these operatives have been taking kick backs from the pharmaceutical company that makes the blue pill - my goal is to put a measure of TRANSPARENCY into the process.

We need a secure area. All visitors who are working on behalf of these external pharmaceutical companies must wear a visitors pass and be escorted around the secure space.

For too long they have been sneaking around in the secure area, claiming to be going to the bathroom. Now we see that they have been crapping all over the place and expecting US to clean it all up.

Marbles said...

@ Constructive:

Aigh. Knock off that "A-HA!!!" gotcha stuff. Nothing belittles an intelligent argument quite the way that does.

Your point is taken, but only because you aren't going around simply telling people to vote GOP. If you were, the "politics isn't the cure" message would indeed be canceled out. I still think the way you buttress those two points together reads as something of a contradiction, but on their own, I understand them completely.

Constituion lovr said...

@Rippa - wow you really showed "how smart you are". All he asked you to do was take a look at his campaign. Did you do that? Will you do that? One of the greatest problems with our country right now is that people are too quick to judge based on what their perceptions are of someone - repub, dem, indep. / black, white, other. We need to be an educated people if we are to govern by the people, and I am going to learn about the RNC 1964, because I don't know what you are referring to, and I would ask that in return, you learn about Phillip. I have met him personally and believe he is one of the most sincere people I know, and before you go BSing someones statements with the bitterness that flowed - you should at least know something about them.

Constructive Feedback said...

AverageBro - I have no beef with you.

In truth my problem is with RiPPa. He had a link to your blog on his page. Anyone who RiPPa is comfortable with makes me suspicious.

I will continue to construct my model of you based upon our continued engagements.

[quote] I make no apologies for this. But on the local level, I have, and will continue to vote for the right person, R, D, or I. Doesn't matter.[/quote]

AverageBro - you mentioned specifically that "You could not see yourself voting for a Republican President".

Again - I am not here to argue on "Why" this is nor for the GOP. If Michael Steele wants to write me a check - I would consider doing so. If the guy in Virgina who now runs the Democrats wish to do the same - I am for sale.

I wonder why you are so explicit about the GOP yet you (apparently) don't have the same concerns about the machine that already controls every single institution within the Black community and just last year the same Black people that have grievances over the performance of their own institutions assisted this machine to take control over the entire nation.

AverageBro:

If I told you that a Black person who lives in Baltimore (or Chicago or Newark or Philly or DC)

* Has a mayor who is a Democrat
* Has a city councilman who is a Democrat
* Has a city council that is majority controlled by the Democrats
* Has a state rep who is a Democrat
* In a state house that is dominated by the Democrats
* Has a state senator who is a Democrat
* With a state senate that is controlled by the Democrats
* Has a US rep who is a Democrat
* In a US House that has a strong Democratic majority
* Has two US Senators that are Democrats
* In a Senate that has a filibuster proof Democratic majority
* Has a President that is not only a Democrat - they have a "Commemorative Plate" of this president sitting on their fire place

would it then strike you as puzzling that this same person is fed a heavy diet of Black themed political analysis that has him focused on the threat.............from the REPUBLICANS?????

You see AB - I suspect that many "Democrats who are Black" never thought that this day would come.

No. No. No. Not a "Black President".

I am speaking of a time in which they have "WON".....yet in too many measures their people are still "losing".

Most of their rhetoric was focused on the external battle and the game of attrition. Now that they have ENOUGH POWER by which - most rationale people would argue that they, for example, being the stewards of their own school - should be producing better outcomes - Why are they still on this expansionary run?

What force do you expect will start ASKING QUESTIONS?


Will a Fox ever admit on his own that "he has eaten too many of the eggs out of the hen house" and that the Hen House Owner (meaning individual Black community members) need to do something better to close the security vulnerabilities that the fox has exploited for years?

TRANS-PAR-ENCY!!!

ecthompson said...

constructive feedback that says -- My focus is upon the SOLD OUT BLACK OPERATIVES who have unfettered access to our Racial Nucleus. In as much as THEY are selling the "Democratic Party as the great elixir to Black folks" most of my time is spent building up frameworks by which to transparently measuring the results that these operatives have rendered.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm stupid but I have no idea what this means. This reminds me of some of the postgraduate tests that I took in medical school. There were a string of words and I understood each individual word but when you put them all together it really didn't make any sense. It may be that this is so far above my head that I cannot fathom it. On the other hand, I think it is more likely that this is all gobbledygook.

Marbles said...

@ ecthompson:

Simplification----

"Black leaders have told the community for decades that only the Democratic Party can serve its interests. Thus they have created a foolproof Democratic monopoly in minority communities while nursing a fear and resentment toward the now-completely external Republican Party, thereby channeling all the blame for their own failures onto people who couldn't have caused the failures even if they'd tried. These people need to be rendered transparent and held accountable for their failures."

The fee for my translation services will be mailed to you---and complaints from the relevant party about inaccuracies in the translation will, of course, have no bearing on how much I charge. (If anything, they'll make me charge more, in order to help fight off the libel suit.)

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Could it be a direct result of that whole "Southern Strategy" thing?[/quote]

My friend RiPPa you and others are very conversant of "The Southern Strategy" - how White Conservatives used racially polarizing antics to gain Republican electoral success.

Question for you - do you think that there has been an "Urban Strategy" implemented by the Progressives?

If I showed you the research I did this past summer after driving through one of the most violent and run down parts of Atlanta on my way to dropping my kids of every day to summer camp would this raise the specter of this "Urban Strategy"?

This part of Atlanta - the "Pittsburg" section had the highest concentration of 2 things that I noted from the summer:

* Black Poverty
* Campaign signs for today's mayoral, city council and city council presidency elections

It seems to me, RiPPa, that pound for pound as it relates to direct assault upon our Permanent Interests - the "Urban Strategy" has done more damage. The "Southern Strategy" might have been more "offensive" to our dignity with respect to what we ask of White folks. When it comes to the question of the building of key institutions in our communities via organic means OR dangling a carrot with promise that if we hand over our ballots some sort of quid pro quo would be transacted - It is clear that the evidence speaks for itself.

You see RiPPa there are two key valuable pieces of paper in America

* The dollar bill
* The ballot

along the way some crafty Negro figured out that while some Black folks are low on the "white paper with green ink" type of valuable paper - that ballot has the POWER to channel that other paper into the community.

I am also working on a model to define the "currency flows" that a community can receive:

* Via commercial trade

* Via society seeking to express its VALUE of the people in question and thus they do "taxation and redistribution"

* Via individual members of the society seeking to express their own VALUATION of people of their own choosing via private charitable giving.

RiPPA - you are a pretty smart economics guy.

Let me ask you -

* which of these 3 flows allows a people to develop their own skills in which they market something of value that attracts money to them and thus, once the pump is primed more people will transact with them because they have something that is of value - thus they build up market power?

* Which of these builds up government dependency and thus the main transaction between these said entities is the ballot?

* Which of these can be strategically used by a people to overcome a deficiency that they have yet allows the people to prioritize their own resources, sending it strategically to other people they are concerned about while not building up dependency upon the government but instead allowing them to be the decision maker on who receives the gratis?


The "Urban Strategy" - which of these 3 were built up because of it?

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote] I think it is more likely that this is all gobbledygook.[/quote]

ecthompson - I think that it is this one above.

Continue as you are.

RiPPa said...

"wow you really showed "how smart you are". All he asked you to do was take a look at his campaign. Did you do that?" - Constituion lovr

Sorry, but there's no for me to "look at his campaign" after what he said. Nothing he has said - AS I POINTED OUT - shows me any different than the usual rhetoric from Black Republicans.

Now, you go learn the "HISTORY" of the Republican Party as it relates to Blacks and the Black vote and then comeback and talk to me.

I think it's funny how "certain people" are always stressing the need for Negroes to look past the days of Slavery, but yet this candidate is suggesting that I, as a Black man, look past the divisive and dare I say racist actions of the Republican Party of the 60s (He did say forget about Goldwater didn't he?) and focus on the history of the party and the part they played in the emancipation of the Negro.

Yeah, I'm showing how smart I am.

RiPPa said...

"n truth my problem is with RiPPa. He had a link to your blog on his page. Anyone who RiPPa is comfortable with makes me suspicious." - Constructive Feedback

Now that was funny as hell Ronald.

zoopath said...

Here's the thing, Republicans are only socially conservative but they're worse than dems with wasting money. I'd rather we not get into massive, unfathomable debt. However, if we're going to do it I would much rather we go into to debt to make our lives better (healthcare, etc) than spend it killing brown people in useless wars. I don't like killing brown people and I sure as sugar don't like going into massive debt to do it. Libertarians are the actual fiscal conservatives, although they can get a little ayn randy. At least they're consistent with their values, have integrity and would spend less money.

Marbles said...

@ RiPPa:

Now, now. No name calling. (literally) XD

Anyway, the "side" represented by you and the "side" represented by Philip both have one half of the story as far as the GOP and its history with minorities is concerned. Neither half is inaccurate. The issue is which half is relevant toDAY.
I don't believe that people like Philip truly understand who they're mingling with. But can I ask you if you would have quite the same level of vitrol if the whole issue of the GOP's post-1964 behavior were taken out of the equation?

Molly said...

Hmm. I don't want to get into the fracas that is the comment section today. I just wanted to say that I think it was an interesting idea for a post and well-written. I have my own quarrel with the Republican party, but it isn't related to the issues you are questioning today.

RiPPa said...

Here's how the GOP works...

READ:http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2009/11/police-called-to-ny-23-polling.html

Intimidating voters at two polling stations in NY's 23rd district? Didn't they say "their candidate" was not conservative enough forcing her to drop out of the race?

In a country where Black people had to go through hell and high-water to be granted the right to vote. Is this who or what we should be down with?

P.S. Look for Constructive Feedback to address this post drawing reference to the New Black Panther Party in Philadelphia. Yeah, I'm calling your plays for you Ronnie.

RiPPa said...

@Contructive Feedback: "Urban Strategy"...? Sounds like a conspiracy theory my man. I've never heard the term applied or used before. However, the "Southern Strategy" has been well documented and employed since the days of Richard Nixon my man.

As far as conditions in urban centers? When have they ever been the center of economic triumph? Certainly not in the days when European immigrants came got off at Ellis Island, no?

You see, the problem with your assessment as you know from me schooling you on many occasions. Is that you fail to provide a historical reference or context to your argument. Instead, you run the canard suggesting that the source of the economic woes of the inner city restst with it's inhabitants who in your eyes are Black.

You make no mention to just how the shift in focus from manufacturing to the service industry has made a significant impact. Naw, leave it to you, and Black people should build their own factories in the inner city instead of depending on gov't programs like the current Green initiative for example.

Speaking of which...

checkout how the recent $11 billion via the recovery act is being put to work to the benefit of those very same lazy people in the ghetto:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5U6ZO-3XGw

Yes, and this is happening all across the country as we speak. But I guess that's a bad thing since the money is coming from the gov't. Or dare I say a Democratic administration, no?

spool32 said...

Vitriol is right... Rippa, saying you've pointed out or shown something isn't the same as actually showing it.

For example: This study in the UK shows children of single-parent families are 25% more likely to break the law and 1.6 times more likely to do it at least twice. Here's a little more data for you.

Your comment about Lamar Alexander is a straw man... what if he made a interracial porno? I bet that'd affect his polling too, but it's just as irrelevant. Neither situation happened.

You seem to have read Phillip's comment about a lack of principle backwards, too.

Wanna have another go with some constructive counterpoints? Yelling 'bullshit' and then declaring you've proved your case isn't exactly the best tactic... though it is sort of illustrative of what happens when faced with an argument that challenges talking-points thinking. I mean, Phillip called out the national party leadership and said that the GOP had screwed up and needed to get back to treating people like people... but that's not good enough for you, eh?

@marbles:
I'm certain Phillip had little idea the level of vitriol his ideas, and in fact his very presence as a black Republican, would face. 25 comments in and we're already at personal insults against the guy. It's a shame.

RiPPa said...

@spool32: I could care less about you presenting the results of a UK study to support this man's claim. Did he present any of us with figures to back up his claim? No he didn't. Instead, as all Conservative politicians do, he attempted to identify "family values" as something exclusive to his ideological political leanings.

But hey, let's talk about the correlation if you will...

Are the 2 million plus people currently incarcerated in this country a direct result of the breakdown of the family, or the concept of family values?

You see my friend, that in effect is what this man is saying, but you missed it. I tend to think differently. I tend to think that this is no accident but instead all by design with the continued nihilism of the Prison Industrial Complex.

See the book Slavery by Another Name.

You see, the problem with Phillip's claim is as it is always with conservatives. There is no historical connection to these developed or perceived social ills as it relates to the Black man or people of color.

"The need of black conservatives to gain the respect of their white peers deeply shapes certain elements of their conservatism. In this regard, they simply want what most people want, to be judged by the quality of their skills, not by the color of their skin. But the black conservatives overlook the fact that affirmative action policies were political responses to the pervasive refusal of most white Americans to judge black Americans on that basis."— Cornel West

And before you run the same tired game CF is pushing, read this and understand where I'm coming from as I rehash this politicians rhetoric.

"My aim is not to provide excuses for black behavior or to absolve blacks of personal responsibility. But when the new black conservatives accent black behavior and responsibility in such a way that the cultural realities of black people are ignored, they are playing a deceptive and dangerous intellectual game with the lives and fortunes of disadvantaged people.

We indeed must criticize and condemn immoral acts of black people, but we must do so cognizant of the circumstances into which people are born and under which they live. By overlooking these circumstances, the new black conservatives fall into the trap of blaming black poor people for their predicament. It is imperative to steer a course between the Scylla of environmental determinism and the Charybdis of a blaming-the-victims perspective."
- Dr. Cornel West

Marbles said...

@ RiPPa:

I read--and I can't remember where so I can't vouch for its accuracy--that when single-parent homes are adjusted for, the black-white crime gap in the USA virtually disappears.

IF that's true--maybe it is, maybe it isn't--I don't see that it undermines the point you're making through the West quote, because I don't see these kinds of issues as either/or. The end of West's quote even talks about finding the middle ground between the [Scylla] and [Charybdis] positions.

ebonygentleman said...

I'm not about to let the smell of this urination of opinions get on me.

I just want to raise a glass of Champ-pipple to Spool32.

Great job on the piece. Very compelling and I congratulate you on your hard work of getting to those dudes in the first place.

I'm out.

EG

spool32 said...

To start with, you should've hit the links rather than just read the text. Single parent families lead to higher teenage crime. Whether there's some interim step involving incarceration at higher rates in the punishment phase, even one born of racism or conspiracy, does not negate the point that two-parent families produce fewer children teenage criminals.

I don't often agree with Cornell West, but I think he's supporting the argument that environment (home life) is a factor in immoral acts. Indeed he's suggesting we shouldn't lean too heavily on that fact, but that it plays a role we can't ignore. Sounds to me like Dr. West is arguing against you on this one, Rippa.

I'm willing to take Phillip at his word here, when he says husbands and wives raising families is an American issue, and part of a solution that would serve well both the black and white communities in his district.

Shady_Grady said...

Here's an example of the attitude that Phillip and those who share his interests will have to fight against. The dominant wing of the Republican Party likes things just the way they are and really doesn't want to open things up. This writer is pretty brutally dismissive of that concept.

We don't need the Black Vote

Marbles said...

@ Shady:

Without even getting to the main point of the article, the first three paragraphs alarm me. Are really THAT many whites jumping the U.S.S. Obama over the goddamn Gates thing? Are people really, honestly, truly that demented? I hope the effect of Gatesgate on Obama's ratings is just hyperbole, here. I really hope so. If it isn't, well...I'm speechless.

spool32 said...

@marbles: it's hype. The reason Obama's splits are in the toilet (-10 now) and his agenda is stalling out has nothing to do with whites fleeing him over Gates.

That was a moment in time, a flash in the pan... if anything, the main thing that episode said about Obama is that he's simply not very experienced at handling curveballs that are off message.

Shady_Grady said...

@Marbles:
I haven't looked at the numbers recently but when the Gates thing happened there was a racial split in Americans over how Obama dealt with it.

I don't think it explains any change in Obama's standing but is just wishful thinking by the author of the article.

But as you noted, that's not the author's main gripe. =)

Marbles said...

@ Spool:

What it said was that too many Americans are incapable of seeing the world in grays. The way people were carrying on, you'd think Obama had answered that reporter's question with a shout of "Kill the white devils!" accompanied by a fascist salute.

But anyway, I don't think it's so much Obama being unable to handle curveballs as it is the typical inability of leftish types to fathom the minds that conjure up completely irrelevant, out of context statements that have nothing to do with what's being discussed, and their inevitable awkward responses are often pointed at as "proof" of their weak positions. (Tom Tomorrow makes fun of this all the time. Humor in sad truth.)

spool32 said...

So what you're saying is that leftists can't multitask or engage in parallel thinking?

*snicker*

It was news of the day, somebody asked him, and rather than saying simply "I can't comment until I have all the facts" or "that's really irrelevant to the discussion. Next question." Obama made a comment that was irrelevant to the discussion without knowing all the facts.

That's simple inexperience, not some mysterious difference in the progressive mind that can't comprehend more than one discussion thread at a time. Don't oversell, dude. Intellectuals are supposed to be mentally agile, remember? You guys are the thinkers, the mental giants! We're supposed to be the stodgy cretins who can't switch gears and hate nuance.

Get it right!

Marbles said...

It's not a "mysterious difference in the progressive mind." It's thinking versus militant, willful ignorance. Neither is the exclusive province of the political right or left. (It's useless bringing up politics with a certain friend of mine, whose grasp of the Bush administration doesn't go too much deeper than "That stupid monkey.")

You're right that the Gates thing wasn't the best example of that, but Obama's falling numbers are partly due to that general dynamic.

How painful is it to contradict myself this profoundly:
The very thing about Obama that won me over---that he was the first mainstream Presidential candidate in my lifetime to talk to the public like ADULTS (!!!!)---is also one of the very things that's costing him. He cannot, as others have pointed out, get it through his head that most people are not as intelligent as he is.

(Yes, he's handled a lot of things badly. But that's another issue.)

Anonymous said...

@ ShadyGrady

I'm so glad you brought up the Dixiecrat part of the Repub. history. I have never seen or heard a "black" republican address that part of the history. They always go back to the 1800's and leave it there. This is why I have a hard time taking them seriously.

Pulling a term from my psych 101 class, cognitive dissonance (defined as: a state of psychological conflict or anxiety resulting from a contradiction between a person's simultaneously held beliefs or attitudes) will make them come up with another justification for "respecting" the republican party and it's history. I would've liked to hear him discuss the republican history with Strom Thurmon or Jesse Helms. :)

Marbles said...

@ Anonymous:

That's always been what confuses me most. You want to be a Republican because you believe in the party's platform? Fine, go ahead. All the power to someone with the courage of their convictions. But a lot of them go into this weird routine where the last 45 years of American political history never happened.

spool32 said...

I would argue that the most significant piece of pro-minority legislation in the last 20 years has been welfare reform. Created by a Republican congress and rammed down the throat of an unwilling Democrat president, changing the destructive nature of that system has reaped great benefits.

I'll see your Helms and Thurmond and raise you a Byrd... and a Biden.
-----

One thing I found interesting in the interview was the fact that Phillip did NOT gloss over the issues of the last 30-40 years... he came right out and said that the party screwed up and had to start over from scratch to make headway. He even gave an example of a successful politician doing just that.

I think progressives set the bar impossibly high, and I think the reason they do is that they fear losing a 90% stranglehold lock on a constituent base who will push the D button so faithfully it's often impossible to even talk to them about the GOP.

I swear, the idea that minority interests are American interests is like kryptonite to a progressive.

spool32 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
spool32 said...

In fact, here's a challenge: what national bill championed by a Democrat has helped minorities most between the Civil Rights Act and now? I'm honestly ignorant... would someone point me to the greatest Democrat achievement on behalf of minorities in the last 30 years?

Hell, you can go back before then too if you want... the Civil Rights Act was passed and signed by a wily and skillful Democrat with the help of the Republicans in Congress, over the objections of his own party.

Denise said...

Gotta co-sign with EbonyGent's
2:56 pm comment.

Thanks for expanding the dialogue, Spool. Good stuff!

Wave said...

Wow there are some deep discussions going on in here. Here’s my two cents as an independent who’s a member of the NRA and Amnesty international and who voted for Republican Bob McDonnell today. Let’s face it a lot more Blacks especially southern black men are far more conservative than liberal. What keeps a lot of us from the republican or as I would hope libertarian parties is the race baiting.

The GOP can choose to turn a blind eye to their racial issues (Limbaugh’s Savages, ect, ect) or they can either choose to either address the issue and reach out to more aggressively to minorities without sacrificing their core beliefs. As America become less and less white the southern strategy will eventually become the GOP’s Achilles heel.

silverkris said...

Spool,

That's right, the Civil Rights Act of 1964/1965 was passed with the help of moderate Republicans against the opposition of Dixiecrats. Unfortunately, there are a couple of things that you didn't mention which are relevant to today's political alignments: Number one, the more conservative Dixiecrats became Republicans and moved the GOP over the years, to the right, as they started to dominate the party. Number two, at the same time, the moderate Northeastern Republicans started to lose their influence and numbers, and now, there are few of them.

It's funny, political scientists used to say for a long time that the Democrats had to become more conservative in order to win the South, without noticing that the GOP at the same time was taking positions that played well in the South but limited their appeal nationwide. So now, as a result, you have a GOP today that is having a tough time finding a coherant and appealing message to all people, particularly people of color, without alienating their base.

In any case, I commend you on a job well done with interviewing the two gentlemen. I think the country and African Americans are better served when both parties are looking out for their interests. I am using the Jewish American electorate analogy - both parties support Israel in their platforms and practices and go for their vote.

I think for the GOP to appeal more to AfAms, they've got to neutralize that group or base that feeds off of the resentment and nativist feelings as a start.

Marbles said...

@ Spool:

"One thing I found interesting in the interview was the fact that Phillip did NOT gloss over the issues of the last 30-40 years... he came right out and said that the party screwed up and had to start over from scratch to make headway."

Ten points!.....

"I swear, the idea that minority interests are American interests is like kryptonite to a progressive."

...Nine points deducted!!!!!

I think WE would know which particular chunks of space rock are poisonous to us, don't you? [he asked rather huffily ;]

You got lucky though---the interview got you 100 points. So you finish with a 91.


"Would someone point me to the greatest Democrat achievement on behalf of minorities in the last 30years?"

I think that sound we're hearing is crickets....

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]I think it's funny how "certain people" are always stressing the need for Negroes to look past the days of Slavery, but yet this candidate is suggesting that I, as a Black man, look past the divisive and dare I say racist actions of the Republican Party of the 60s[/quote]

RiPPa:

I like you man.
I really do.
You are a "good bigot".
Not the "building burning" type of bigot but an ideological bigot none the less.

I am on a quest to plot out the "rules" that the Black Quasi-Socialist Progressive-Fundamentalist Racism Chaser uses to come to the conclusions that he is bound to.

In your case:

* The "Southern Strategy" of the Democrats is SUPERIOR than the "Urban Strategy" of the Democrats.

Whereas the key thing that WHITE REPUBLICANS did to benefit Black people was to "Recognize that there were some firmly entrenched battles over RESOURCES and thus they MOVED AWAY!!!!!

Get this RiPPa - from this exodus came:

* Black Democrat Mayors
* Black Democrat City Council Members
* Democratic Dominated City Council majorities
* Black Democrat County Board members
* Democrat Dominated county boards
* Black Democrat School District members
* Democratic Dominated School Boards
* Black Democrat State Representatives
* Black Democrat US Representatives

(Let's STOP RIGHT HERE Rippa - if this is SLANDER AGAINST MY OWN PEOPLE - I challenge you to articular WHY)

For some reason RiPPa you readily accept the label "The Southern Strategy" because it is in print via the operatives that you favor.

I, a man who "urinates while standing" JUST LIKE the people who analyzed what the evil, racist Republicans were doing and affixed the the label "Southern Strategy" to it - did similar research about what the Democratic party is doing and thus affixed the label "Urban Strategy" to it just the same. For some reason NO AMOUNT of proof that I offer will afford you the ability to accept this label.

You are acting "All White Jury-like" in your antics.

I would like for you to tell me WHY YOU BELIEVE that there was no "Urban Strategy" executed by the Democrats?

I make the case that they saw "Black Grievances" and made note that a certain amount of attention and appeasement will translate into VOTES and LOYALTY from Black folks - especially Black folks like you.

I would like for you to tell me WHAT PHYSICAL HARM THE BLACK COMMUNITY SUFFERED from the "Southern Strategy".

I can detail the strategic failure that the "Urban Strategy" was to our interests in an INDEPENDENT CONSCIOUSNESS where Organic solutions that build up our communities were jettisoned for the sake of being made "In Receipt Of Benefit".

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]You see, the problem with your assessment as you know from me schooling you on many occasions. Is that you fail to provide a historical reference or context to your argument. Instead, you run the canard suggesting that the source of the economic woes of the inner city restst with it's inhabitants who in your eyes are Black.[/quote]

RiPPa - I realize the lynch pin of your arguments and Filled Negroes arguments against me is that you work hard to make the case that I am talking about some INFERIOR ATTRIBUTES OF BLACK PEOPLE.

You know that this is a LIE.
It is only made to attempt to put me on the defensive.

I have several blogs that anyone can go to in order to see that I am making CULTURAL criticisms and that the "Kneegrows On Stage With A Mic In Their Hands" which fortify these entrenched positions for their own benefit are the key problem.

I make the case that there are MEASURABLE COSTS to the POLICIES that the BQPFRC accepts as being "Real Black Positions".

You all like to make the case that there is simply NO DOWN SIDE to your positions. Any erosion that does take place is trumped up as RACISM or some result of having been undercut by some outsider.

When it comes to a top line analysis and make note that where these policies are strongest - the Black unemployment rates are also highest - don't seem to cause you and other BQPFRCs to do introspection of your positions.

YOU DON'T ENUMERATE THE COSTS THAT ARE BORN AS BEING A CONSEQUENCE OF YOUR FLAWED THEORIES.

[quote]
You make no mention to just how the shift in focus from manufacturing to the service industry has made a significant impact.
[/quote]

RiPPa - did the same magical figure that actually did the killing instead of Mumia Abu Jamal also take over the cities and run these manufacturers out of the cities?

Why is it that you can't see that INCREASED COSTS OF DOING BUSINESS was a key contributing factor?

Here is what I am working on RiPPa. I am working to define a model that captures the economic costs to the Black community when once powerful cities (Detroit, Camden, Newark, Akron , Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Rochester, Baltimore, etc) had lost their industrial base and in the resulting plunge of these cities - the burden that the Black folks who migrated out of the "Confederate Southern States" had suffered as a result of this economic erosion.

You all always like to pretend that your negotiating position had nothing but the "best interests of the little people in mind".

We need to some how document the costs of the present eroded position against what a moderated stance against the "Consumers Of Labor" would have put out had they still been around.

[quote]Naw, leave it to you, and Black people should build their own factories in the inner city instead of depending on gov't programs like the current Green initiative for example.[/quote]

RiPPa - I ONLY argue that the Black community needs to find some system that leverages the brainpower of our people.

I argued on my blog after seen a "history of metal use by man" documentary that we should not look to Van Jones and his ECONOMIC promises about the future. Instead since metal smelting is a very energy intensive and polluting prospect that we need to look to Van Jones for a new METALLURGICAL PROCESS which is less energy intensive or less polluting - or at minimum - alternative materials (ie: carbon fiber) that allows for a net reduction of metal usage.

This would have far more effective results than the spending schemes.

Why aren't you calling upon the elements of the machine that runs our communities to produce more scientists who will be trained enough to take the lead in building up these alternative processes?

The Smoking Ace said...

@Constructive Feedback,

Okay, straight to the point would be nice.

@spool
I understand that you are a Republican, there a good Republicans and bad Republicans. Les Phillip is a very interesting story due to the fact he wants something for the minority to earn and he do understand that the Republican downfall is the southern strategy. Most Republican fall under the Nixon spell (i.e. Limbaugh, Hannity, Buchanan) and not the Reagan spell. To each its own. People do not even know unless you are from the state of Mississippi that Medgar Evers' brother, Charles, is a Republican. The wing-nuts and racist are the one that is turning the minorities away.

@Rippa

I agree with you 95%, but the 5% is saying don't be too sure about the Democrats neither. I know one Black Democrat from a southern state that has done absolutely nothing, but people are just afraid to run against him because of the population of his district mindset.

ezparz said...

Great interview Spool. Electrifying post.

I can't name a democratic bill that's affected minorities specifically but Democrats' pro-education platform helps minorities- if not tangibly then psychologically. I also think that supporting social services and funding progressive and holistic approaches to education, criminal recidivism, etc. helps minorities. The GOP "boot-strap" philosophy doesn't bring needed social services to people who've already fallen through the system and don't know how to pull themselves up. And the GOP "tough on crime" stance doesn't really help minorities. It creates single-parent households- something Philip abhors. So in a general sense, the values that Dems have that are more touchy-feely like holistic services and supporting arts (which promote urban economies), environmentalism (reducing minority health issues), alternatives to incarceration, etc. are going to attract and financially support minorities more than the opposing values of the GOP. Tax breaks for example, don't really help people who don't make much money or who live off our tax dollars anyway.

I think if the GOP created urban non-profits that counseled and provided support to low-income families to stay together, to deal with their drug habits, to give nutrition to their kids, etc. all in the name of the GOPs "family values" then blacks would respond. Being tough on poor blacks is useless- their lives are already tough. Providing tangible support and having an action-oriented presence in the communities is what will sway blacks. The better question is, "what GOP supported for-profit, or non-profit exists in urban centers that affects minorities in a positive way?" There are many that are helping but they're all run by liberals, unfortunately.

Constructive Feedback said...

ezparz:

I have little doubt that you believe everything that you have posted above.

I have some serious challenges to your line of thinking.

WHY do you seek to "equalize" Democrats and Republicans in the question of public education for Black people?

Before I get to this point I must ask you a more fundamental question:

While I am quite sure that you can articulate the BENEFITS of a given party and ideology for having won a series of elections and thus taken control over the institutions..........I seriously wonder if YOU also apply RESPONSIBILITY/OBLIGATIONS for these same forces being in place?

The reason for this statement is simply. Look at how public education is dispensed. This is a local operation and the constitutional obligation for public education is a state function.

Yet, for some reason, certain Black folks who I call "Black Quasi-Socialist Progressive-Fundamentalist Racism Chasers" operate in a "voter nullified" trance. It seems that as their favored machine takes over MORE of the key institutions the failure of these entities to deliver goes unpunished by them.

We all know the consequences for "Republican Failure" - purge from office.

It seems to me that with people like YOU - the consequence for "local/regional Democratic Failure" is to work hard to get them more national power so that more resources can be confiscated and then redirected into the district so that ultimate SUCCESS might be had.

Thus at a time when far, far, far more Black kids receive their public education from a system and/or a city that has favorable people in place - I struggle to understand how you can identify all of the "good policies" that the Democrats have blessed us with - WHEN the average large metro school district barely graduates more than half of their minority students.

Chicago Public Schools has a 55.1% graduation rate. In as much as 87% of their student base is Black or Hispanic this system registers as a direct assault upon the future of Black America.

I heard the former head of the CPS, Arnie Duncan, who is now the Federal Education Secretary announce to the world that his plan is to return the USA to the top nation for COLLEGE graduation rates.

This caused me to ask "Does Duncan and the Obama Administration have BLACK PEOPLE in mind in this new target?". All evidence streaming from Chicago - where the same machine that runs the city and the state has now scaled into the federal government, has FAILED to show demonstrably that they are able to set forth policies by which Black children can even graduate high school.

And YOU want be to heap praise upon them?

Please!!!

I just want to understand the "rules" that you all apply to come up with your statements. The solving of that formula would make me more famous than the guy who came up with "E=MC^2"

Please prove to me that your views are rooted in something other than your own ideological bigotry.

spool32 said...

@eparz:
Fair points... I can name you a dozen conservative charities that do what you're seeking though.

To start with, many churches run counselling services for women who are pregnant and don't want to abort. Habitat for Humanity is supported by most, if not all, conservative and Republican groups. Charity hospitals like the Seton network here in central Texas (3 massive hospitals, the premire heart center, trauma ER, 5 local clinics in poor areas) are run by conservatives as well.

We're doing a lot... just not through the government.

Anonymous said...

@spool

I see you "raised" me a Senator Byrd (Dem). It seemed to me that the priorities/focus of the democratic party changed and bigots, like Thurmon and Helms, left the party. They eventually found a home in the republican party. A party that, evidently, could better articulate their bigoted view point. I won't try to guess why Byrd did not switch parties (as I guessed about Thurmon and Helms :). But I do know that while black republicans are STILL trying to convince black folks to just join their ranks, democrats have chosen a black man as their presidential candidate and, obviously, got him elected. Now, we can always argue about what that means in a real/tangible sense for black folks' advancement in this world but it's hard to dismiss the symbolism or imagery.....And when you're trying to "sell" something, positive symbolism/imagery is always a plus.

Marbles said...

@ Constructive:

You make a lot of valid points---but your tone is over-the-top and abrasive. No one wants to respond to someone who talks to them like that. Especially when the main points are stretched thin by excessive verbage. (And I thought I could get overly wordy!)

I am not arguing with your points, per se. (most of them). Just remember that if you want to talk with people, tone down that ivory tower stuff, huh?

silverkris said...

Constructive:

My eyes pretty much have glazed over trying to read your postings, they're way too wordy, and vitrolic in tone. I'd advise you to tone it down.

spool32 said...

@Anonymous:

Director of the NSA. Secretary of State, our public face to the world. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Chairman of the RNC. Justice of the Supreme Court.

I maintain that if Powell had run instead of Dole, it would have been the Republican party who elected the first black President... and you should remember that he was very aggressively courted by the GOP establishment and refused to put his name in the ring for personal reasons. Basically, his wife asked him not to drag her mental health battles through the muck of a Presidential contest.

So as far as party leaders and positions of national prominence, the fact is that the Republicans have the depth here. Apart from Obama, Democrats don't have much of a track record on putting people of color in powerful positions. Not even Obama is very good at it.

Then again, Obama STILL doesn't have all his senior Deputy Secretary posts filled. With this job market, that is simply inexplicable!

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]P.S. Look for Constructive Feedback to address this post drawing reference to the New Black Panther Party in Philadelphia.[/quote]


RiPPa:

I am seriously impressed with you.

Typically you only register a complaint about an election procedure when the Democrats lose.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]The GOP can choose to turn a blind eye to their racial issues (Limbaugh’s Savages, ect, ect) or they can either choose to either address the issue and reach out to more aggressively to minorities without sacrificing their core beliefs. As America become less and less white the southern strategy will eventually become the GOP’s Achilles heel.[/quote]

Wave:

I have to strongly disagree with you on this point.

In your argument you assume as true that the people on your list are racists or use racist tactics. Is there any surprise that their political adversaries will label their actions "racist"?

The more comprehensive point would be to develop a RULE by which EVERYONE is evaluated by.

I noted, for example that tv analysist Roland Martin had rapper Ludacris on his show "Washington Watch" on TVOne.

I doubt that anyone would argue that the microphone that vibrates from the sound of Ludacris' voice has recorded far more ignorant and offensive words said about Black people than 25 years of Rush Limbaugh on radio.

To not consider the IDEOLOGICAL agenda of those who JUDGE and the benefit of them being selective in their responses in which they are offended renders your analysis incomplete.

I choose to measure ALL OF THEM against "Black Permanent Interests" and make note that in 2009 - more Black "permanent interests" are being directly violated by the people that we as a community have put into the seats of power over our institutions than the people who don't want to share their resources with us and thus are seen as our adversaries..

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]You make a lot of valid points---but your tone is over-the-top and abrasive. No one wants to respond to someone who talks to them like that.[/quote]

Marbles:

On a constant basis I interact with a defensive line composed of RiPPa, Filled Negro and several others. You are a referee who saw ME through the "last punch" and thus you flagged me. All the while you think that the blood that you see on the uniforms of the defensive line was due to a tough physical game that you have been calling.

What you don't see is the straight razors that they have hidden in their socks.

Beyond these targeted few I am simply TIRED of the intellectual dishonesty and SLAVISHNESS that is projected by some people.

Some of the people who swear they are "Black conscious" and thus working on behalf of our people are merely "Democrats who are Black". All of their posts are bleeding with attempts to prop up their party.

If I am abrasive it is due to this fatigue.

I am working to force EVERYONE (including me) to be bound by some TRANSPARENT RULES. This means that as you receive more of your favored people into power over our community institutions - YOU NO LONGER get to talk as if you are an outsider still "struggling" for power.

The term "Ideological Bigot" is not abrasive. It is a painful point of truth that needs to be dealt with.

Our community is dominated by "Leftists" who, in their purported attempts to solve "Black Community problems" are inclined to only apply "Leftist Solutions". While these solutions might be POPULAR among the masses and thus the purveyors are not rebuked - we need some structure to allow us all to confirm that these policies are EFFECTIVE.

You might not like how I talk to you. Make note of how much power the people who speak "Sweet Nothings to you", received power and yet look at where you stand in the wake of their run.

AverageBro.com said...

This thread just reached the point of diminishing returns.

Lockdown.

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