Yeah, I've got some fresh drops for ya'll coming later today, but I couldn't resist lettin' the TUCC/Pfleger beat ride a bit longer. It's been a couple of days since the news of Obama dropkicking his old church surfaced, and you guys have already gone in on this repeatedly in the comments, but I just have a few more random thoughts to get off my chest before I put this one to bed.
Bear with me, there's no rhyme or reason to this...
Black Liberation Theology - There's been a lot of misinformation about BLT being tossed around in the midst of all this. Some folks think it's a simple mantra for black self esteem, others think it's the second coming of some weird Back To Africa movement. Others point out the info deleted from TUCC's website, as if to suggest that these Negros had some Master Plan for World Domination just hangin' out there on the world wide web.
Speaking of which, don't believe anything you read about BLT on the web right about now. Everyone has their own spin. If you wanna know something, try visiting a church that espouses it and make a rational judgement on that basis, and that basis alone. Otherwise, STFU.
I don't go to a church that subscribes to BLT, and I wouldn't know it if it smacked me in the face. But here's some food for thought: If the basic tenets of BLT are so wanton and evil, why he hell hasn't decades of teaching this doctrine lead to some full scale revolt by Black Americans, Nat Turner-style? Those watching from afar seem to think this is a breeding ground for a President who'll covertly come into power and "repay Whitey" for years of oppression and Mayonnaise-laden sandwiches. I say "Poppycock"! If BLT was so damn influential and radical, wouldn't we have seen some fruits of it's evil seed by now?
Or does that just mean Obama is the secret weapon they've been concocting for years to take over America!?! [1]
Fear Of The Angry Black Man - At the heart of a lot of the prevailing sentiment I hear about this church, and it's potential effect on Obama is the feeling that he'll be a champion for correcting the years of black angst against America. It's fear mongering at it's best (worst?), but let's face it: it's as old as America. From the ole' "Buck" stereotypes, to modern day embodiments like 50 Cent and Kimbo Slice[2] (3rd guy above just in case you're wondering), America (and by America, I mean "white folks") has a long standing hate/love relationship with the Angry Black Male. He's admired from afar (gangsta rap), fled from close, despised universally.
Since Obama doesn't fit this stereotype (he is after all, half-white), the best way to bring him down in the absence of anything else of substance (Tony Rezko notwithstanding) is to make him black and angry by proxy. Enter Rebb'n Wright, Father Pfleger, and the merry band of howling jackals in the TUCC congregation.
Chuuuch - It's not simple to leave a church. I've only been a member of three my entire life. I left one because I moved. I left a second because I was no longer being fed. I have been at my current one 10 years. I have heard things from the pulpit I don't agree with occasionally, but nothing that makes me question my allegiance to the church itself. Churches (at least from my PoV) are like mini-communities. You make friends there. Your kids make friends. The experience as a whole often has very little to do with the 45 minutes of "preachin'" you hear Sunday mornings. Sometimes Sunday mornings are in fact inconsequential. Ask me what was taught 5 Sundays ago, and I'll give you a blank stare. Ask me if I felt welcomed among my friends and community, and I'll tell you plenty. Again, just my experience.
So asking someone to just unplug and walk away from decades of people they've vacationed with, broken bread with, prayed with, cried, grown, and lost with isn't as simple as it might seem.
Likewise, just because someone marries you and baptizes your child doesn't make you an outgrowth of their every thought and worldview. Sometimes, it's just "the guy who married us" or "the woman who touched my son's head with water". Implying something deeper also implies that a person who goes to a church can't think and function as a grown adult without accepting the views of a preacher they may or may not have any significant level of personal relationship with.
If you wanna paint Obama, and for that matter, Black America as a whole with the broad brush of accepting the mangled soundbytes and "Que sign-tossin'" pomposity of Rebb'n Wright, then we're in trouble from the jump. So how come nobody's callin' out the far larger congregations of Parsley and Hagee for the comments of their pastors? I'll tell you why, because nobody would make such an inference that their congregants can't think for themselves.
Elistist or Radical? - One more issue. Is Obama an uppity Negro Elitist or a covert operative for the Nation of Islam? Take your pick, but please, please, just choose one. The two don't go together despite how much you try to sell me. You can't paint him with two wholly contradictory stereotypes at once. We don't believe you, you need more people.
The GOP and The Clueless Dumbocratic Party - I've never been so serious about changing party affiliations in my life. This past six months has shown me far more about the regard (or lack thereof) that both the Democratic and Republican parties hold for the Black Community. One party wants to create a superficial illusion of conclusion, the other doesn't even bother fakin' in the first place. And you wonder why Black America stays losin'.
I've pretty much decided that since I already vote as an Independent thinker in the first place, why not formally register as one? Since my voter status is a little screwy right now due to a recent move (I had to vote by proxy in the Dem Primary), I won't do anything until after November (don't want any surprises when it matters most), but I'm about 99.9% sure I'm making a change, regardless of who the next President is.
The MSM Sucks - As for CNN, MSNBC, Sean Hannity, and the other clueless bastions of the Mainstream Media, well, I already said my peace a few weeks back. I'm convinced all this stuff is little more than shamelessly packaged entertainment to keep eyes and ears locked. These folks probably don't even believe a good 75% of what they're spouting day-to-day, so why should I even bother tuning in and wasting energy?
The McCain Issue - John McCain's Pastor Problem is far more troubling, albeit for some very different reasons. Obama joined TUCC as an early twentysomething. I doubt he had designs on 1600 Penn Ave when he became a member. If it was purely for political gain, wouldn't he have joined some even bigger megachurch? Most black folks (yours truly included) had never even heard of Rebb'n Wright before January. He's no TD Jakes, Eddie Long, or Creflo Dollar. Hell, he isn't even a Fredrick K. Price in the grand scheme of things.
McCain on the other hand, actively pursued the endorsements of Hagee and Parsley, after having openly mocked Bush for doing the same thing in 2000. I don't believe for one second that he shares there warped views, but I also don't believe for one second that he wasn't aware of said warped views when he was busy running behind them trying to get a co-sign. Of course, he didn't anticipate the Rebb'n Wright level of scrutiny Obama faced to bring these warped views to the surface, but when they did (albeit for only a single news cycle) he was quick to kick them to the curb. And that, my friends, is political opportunism at it's very worst.
They're not the same thing, but if you wanna paint one as dishonorable, paint them both equally so.
Epilogue - This past six months has shown me an awful lot about this country, and I hate to say this, but most of it's been very bad. Then again, we've yet to see the next six months, so maybe I better keep this in proper perspective.
Sorry folks, just had some stuff to get off my chest. Negro Nonsense As Usual returns later this afternoon.
Question: Is there anything Obama can do to put this issue to rest or is TUCC destined to become his Swiftboat?
[1] Mayo. BLT. Mmmmm. I'm gettin' hungry now. But hold the mayo. And the tomato for that matter. Oh, and make it turkey bacon. On ciabatta...
[2] Talk about a big ball of hype, smoke and mirrors. This dude nearly got his ass whooped by some journeyman! It's why you shouldn't believe anything you see on YouTube. If that's the best MMA has to offer, not thanks, I'm sticking to the NBA.
Monday, June 2, 2008
My Last Words About Trinity, Pfleger, Barry, et al.
Tags Popped: Barry 4 Prez, Negro Nonsense, White Men Gone Wild
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Meh....nuff said.
I did not read your entire post but Liberation Theology has been around since Moses said "Let My People Go" and continues in the life of the ancient Israelites recorded in the bible. As a As a theological construct, liberation theology says that God is on the side of the people getting screwed by the system.
Black liberation theology essentially says the same thing. "Let My People Go" and "don't lynch me, profile me, use the courts unfairly against me, etc. etc. etc.
It has taken various forms in this country from Nat Turner, declaring that "the first shall be last" to Kings Dream.
Chuuchhh, tabernacle, synagogue AND Mosque!
I said what I had to say in the last thread. I'm going to lunch now. White folks have tap danced on my nerves today and I need a white free hour with my sorors!
Good post! I agreed with damn near everything you wrote- and laughed at it too!
But don't hate on Kimbo Slice too much. He's trying...
It's an error for anyone to believe that in a large group like Senator Obama's church there aren't members who disagree with what a Pastor or visiting minister says from time to time. I understand how the Obama's stayed this long; I understand the pressure to separate under the circumstances and I'll understand if they decide to return once he becomes President.
I agree with your notion of registering as an Independent after the November elections. Although I'm registered as a Democrat, I've crossed party lines in the past during local and state elections. I have no loyalities to one party or the other. I think I try to make my decisions based on personality, policy and past decisions that were made.
I'm a Floridian y'all. And just like AB, I have seriously considered changing parties this year - not to the GOP but maybe an Independent.
My young brain just can't take the spineless Democrats sometimes. I've gone through the hanging chads of 2000 and now this in 2008.
I watched the debacle on Saturday and a few family members were calling me when somebody else says an Outlandish statement . . . I'm just frustrated. The Democrats can always find a way to lose when the groundwork is set for a victory.
Forgot to mention something - about Kimbo Slice. I think folks should put why he chose to have the persona with the mixed martial arts.
I'm not agreeing with the persona but knowing his history (like I said previously, I'm a Floridian (not going to specify what part) with being homeless after the Hurricane, and yes dabbled in pornography. I understand his story after listening to some eye-opening interviews with local (yet nationally syndicated) sports DJ of his reasoning for going down this career path.
Some might feel he perpetuates the stereotype but who am I to knock a Brother's hustle.
Excellent post, AverageBro.
Although I disagree with Obama "half whiteness" making him exempt from black angst. Having a white parent doesn't make you any less of a black person or lessen the sting of anti-black racism or weaken an overall black consciousness. Shit, if that's the case, then most black Americans hate themselves since it's common knowledge (or is it?) that we all varying degress of substanstial European blood ...despite physical appearances.
And yes, AB, I agree with you wholeheartedly ...the last six months has shown us that NOTHING has changed when it's come to race or American politics, overall. Shit, I think when it comes to race ...nothing's changed from the time that our ancestors were dropped off here.
Absolutely nothing.
Do I sense an angry black man? (Pun intended)
Great post.
I read pretty much everything on the Trinity website before some things were removed and maybe it's because I'm not American and I don't share in your history but I thought it was a pretty innocent website. Black liberation theology sounds good to me: take your life into your own hands, never be complacent and never stop caring (I think that's what's meant by the rejection of the middle class, the idea that you have arrived and there's nothing left to do: rejecting the middle class means that you need to keep striving to make life better for you and your community).
BLT means standing up for yourself, never allow yourself to fall back on victimhood, but make it happen. I can understand why a church in that particular part of Chicago would follow this theology. I know it's called BLACK liberation theology, but when I read the rules I realised it's something that can easily be translated to other communities. Really, what's wrong with sticking up for yourself?
As this election progresses it has become pretty obvious that there are people who would never vote for Obama because of his color. I wish the DNC would give a strong signal, I wish more supers would have come out with their support for Obama before the end of the primaries. It is time to stop Clinton. She may not be racist herself (I'm not sure though), but she is using it as a political force. She is a demagogue in that respect, using what's already there, channeling it and directing it for her own purposes.
Obama's rise to the top of the heap in the Democratic Party, I'd say that's quite a change.
Maybe, just maybe, all this junk will get everything in the open to be examined, discussed, and debated, so it can be put in perspective, put in it's place, and put in the past. I know that's easy for me to say.
Just because we stand on two sides of a seemingly impassable chasm, does not mean that there will never be a bridge built for us to meet in the middle.
The choice between two narrow governing philosophy is too confining. I hope more people follow your move to political independence.
"[1] Mayo. BLT. Mmmmm. I'm gettin' hungry now. But hold the mayo. And the tomato for that matter. Oh, and make it turkey bacon. On ciabatta..."
See, this is why I love you, AB. Half of us can't even pronounce ciabatta. Black snobbery wins again!
My brother registered as an independent when he was 20. He did it because he felt disillusioned by the two party system: he called it separatist.
Though I am a supporter of Obama, I strongly feel I will change party affiliation at the age of 20 too. Having a group of people represent me that I often can't stand is the culprit. I watched some of the DNC Rules and Bylaws meeting and while I was proud of some (Donna Brazille is my she-ro!), there were others like Ickes (sp) who made me cringe at being in the Democratic Party. And seeing Hillary's people stoop to the levels they have in the past couple of weeks, it really makes me wonder why I even affiliate with these people.
Wow, AB you really upset, huh?
Maybe I'm overly optomistic but I really believe that by the time November rolls around and folks have had enough of paying damn near $5 a gallon for gas, the general public (of all colors) ain't gonna care who Obama worships or how he does it. Ultimately, this election is going to be about the economy.
@ thembi
Ciabatta bread ain't elitist. It's just yummy.
It's so good, some bamas down in Texas actually made an LCD rap song about it, complete with a matching dance.
No, seriously.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mzNXh3MXpSA&feature=related
@ Zack/AfroAm
Kimbo, and MMA in general have a lot more to prove to me after that debacle on CBS Saturday night.
@ mynameis
Good point about the half-white thing.
@ ms 2 cents/EBW
Definitely NOT angry. Occasionally pissed, sure. Angry? Nah. All I gotta do is walk in the front door and get greeted by my wife and son. It seems to keep everything in perspective.
@ wilma
well stated
@ tiff
Lemme guess... did you have Ciabatta bread for lunch or what?
@ halfdome/ciara
Yep, I'm changin it. The day after the election, I'm gettin' it done.
@
AverageBro thanks for a great post. I agree 100% with every word you have written here. If a church like TUCC can mold a man to become president don't we know the majority don't want nothing else good coming out of there.
That is the reason for the attack, wake up America. Any church that can teach you to be more that what you see is a powerful thing. Again thanks!
I'm white. This is why all white should fear "the average black man."
Justice Department Statistics About Black On White Race Violence
'The Race War Of Black Against White' by Paul Sheehan
The Sydney Morning Herald , Australia, 21 May 2008
For the past 30 years a large segment of black America has waged a criminal war of violence against white America.
And the problem is getting worse, not better. In the past 20 years, violent crime has increased more than four times faster than the population. Young blacks (under 18) are more violent than previous generations and are 12 times more likely to be arrested for murder than young whites.
Nearly all the following figures, which speak for themselves, have not been reported in America:
* According to the latest US Department of Justice survey of crime victims, more than 6.6 million violent crimes (murder, rape, assault and robbery) are committed in the US each year, of which about 20 per cent, or 1.3 million, are inter-racial crimes.
* Most victims of race crime—about 90 per cent—are white, according to the survey "Highlights from 20 Years of Surveying Crime Victims", published in 1993.
* Almost 1 million white Americans were murdered, robbed, assaulted or raped by black Americans in 1992, compared with about 132,000 blacks who were murdered, robbed, assaulted or raped by whites, according to the same survey.
* Blacks thus committed 7.5 times more violent inter-racial crimes than whites even though the black population is only one-seventh the size of the white population. When these figures are adjusted on a per capita basis, they reveal an extraordinary disparity: blacks are committing more than 50 times the number of violent racial crimes of whites.
* According to the latest annual report on murder by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, most inter-racial murders involve black assailants and white victims, with blacks murdering whites at 18 times the rate that whites murder blacks.
Sorry, but mid-night basketball ain't going to solve this problem. Just guns, alarms, and votes!
Hold on AverageBro:
Is BLT in the bible? No. BLT is not christianity. It's a cult, just like Scientology. You can pervert the WORD in many ways, even the devil did it. I'm not saying the BLT is wrong, I'm just stating the facts.
@anon at 1:05:00 AM
Don't come around here playing this numbers nonsense. If you knew anything about statistics, you'd see the huge flaw in the 'study' that you're presenting. Not only do the numbers not match from bullet to bullet, they disprove the point you're trying to prove.
Let's continue to assume that the black population is 1/7 that of whites, and that "inter racial crime" had 132,000 black victims and 1 million white victims. Assuming that black and white are the only races that exist in America, which is another huge flaw, this means that there were 1,132,000 victims in total. It then follows that about 12% of these victims were black, and about 88% of the victims were white. But as you claim, the white population is SEVEN TIMES that of the black pop, or in other words, the black population is about 12% and the white population is about88% of the total. Therefore according to your own numbers, roughly the same percentage of interracial crimes are committed in each direction. The raw numbers can't tell this story because there are simply more white people available to be victimized. And I wont even get into fact that your numbers depend on an unfair justice system that results in higher conviction rates for blacks accused of crimes than for whites.
If you wanted to succeed in showing that a higher percentage of black people commit crimes against white people than the whites do against blacks, you've failed tragically. If you want to show that a higher percentage of black people commit crimes in general, you need more numbers.
First off, Thembi: nice rebuttal of the stats.
Let's go down the list:
BLT is influential to an extent... and quite radical in some areas, esp. when you compare them to the southern baptist congregation or the A.M.E. churches. Like anything, you can probably take some good out of BLT but there's a point at which you start to simply breed hate, racial conflict, and pure ignorance.
The basic tenets, to the extent they have penetrated into the community, have eroded self-reliance in favor of victimhood. It's in the basic language... if one escapes oppression, one has no more need for a liberation theology! To keep the movement relevant after the struggles in the 60s and early 70s, it's preachers have sought out more and more outlandish, vague, semi-concocted concepts to set themselves against.
Fear of the Black Man:
While that's probably a lot of what you hear on Rightwing Radio, Inc., those of us who can string together a coherent argument don't subscribe to it. I'd prefer talking about his plan to destroy American credibility in the parts of the world where we want people to take us seriously, or his plan to destroy the economy and your individual liberty with nationalized healthcare, to be perfectly honest. I'm afraid of him because he's wrong in dangerous ways, not because he's black. Questions about how he views the nation and his place in it gnaw away at the reasons I would vote for him.
There's plenty of substance to hit him on. I'm sure we'll get to that.
Chuuuch:
When I was seventeen, I sat once in an Assembly of God pentecostal revival. The "pastor" got up on stage and declared that gays were evil and that AIDS was a scourge sent by God to punish them... it was repulsive, and it went on and on. People loved it. Things got very odd... speaking in tongues, faith healing, etc, but the hate coming from this supposed man of God made me ill. My girlfriend at the time stopped me from leaving in the middle of the sermon, and the main reason was that she feared explaining to her peer group why I'd walked out.
This is perhaps the hardest part of the post to discuss, because I understand the ties of community that bind people together... but I have to ask: is that enough, to tolerate messages of hate? Should you really excuse, or even condone, sticking with a church because of the people you know and the connections you've made, when those connections involve people who either ignore or agree with regular messages of bitterness, of victimization, of anger on Sunday? Is that really a community you would want to belong to? Where do you draw that line? How much is too much before integrity demands you make a statement?
I have always regretted that my desire to continue sleeping with the girl kept me in my seat that day. I should have left, and left her to face the community of "friends" who would believe and support that message. Since then, I've walked out of a church service more than once, even in places where I generally agreed with the minister and felt comfortable with the congregation.
People will draw the line between community benefit and personal integrity in different places. I was raised to put my personal honor far above maintaining a place in the community... when I was a kid, that lesson exemplified why my own father would continue to hire, promote, and support black women for senior nursing staff in the old folk's home he ran, even though it meant that our family was mostly ostracized from the small white community in town. He in turn learned it from his uncle, who committed "suicide" in the 50s over the shame of marrying a black woman. The shotgun his uncle supposedly did it with was two rooms away when the police arrived, with a closed door between it and the body. For me growing up, community wasn't something to be admired or accepted.
Other people will draw that line according to their own upbringing. I suppose my only questions about Obama, with regard to the TUCC, arise from my own regret at listening to hate spewed from a pulpit without standing up for my own belief. Why did Obama draw the line where he did? I don't understand it, and I'd like to.
Also, I'll take the opportunity to absolutely condemn pastors Parsley and Hagee, the Assembly of God, and the pentecostal movement in general. It's a sick perversion of the teachings of Christ, and the people who subscribe to the beliefs taught in these congregations should be shamed of themselves.
Elitist or Radical:
Yesterday's radical is today's latte-sipping elitist. Have doubts? Just look at the "environmental" Hollywood types, the faculty of Duke University, or the upperclass population of San Francisco. I agree that the two should be contradictory, but then, no one ever accused the progressive movement of being internally consistent.
Independent voters:
If the GOP can't manage to remember they're supposed to be the party of individual liberty and fiscal conservatism, I think I'll join you.
MSM:
+1000
McCain's pastor issues:
I'm not sure I agree with you yet, but you could sell me on this. I'd like to see more sourcing so I can read the background.
The country:
There's more to us than politics... a return to foundation American principles of personal liberty, individual freedom, and limited government would do a lot for the mood of the nation and the people in it. Don't give up just yet!
Excellent post, AB.
To answer your question:
Obama's church affiliation could have been his "Swift Boat" out of the running if the media circus occurred earlier in the campaign.
And swiftboat may become a term of the past... as I've seen suggestions that to "Rev'n Wright" somebody should be a verb. hehe
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