Really Long Editor's Note: AB.com ain't the only blog I read of course. There's lots of other good stuff out there in the black blogosphere, and one of my favorites is BlackAndMarriedWithKids.com. My man TheDad and his wife (TheMom) explore the his/hers PoV of various relationship issues on the daily, which isn't really a perspective you get to hear very often. The site's all about uplifting the black family, which as you might suspect, AB is all for. It's the kind of mature blog I'd like to write one day when I grow up.
Anyways, you may have gotten an email about this very unusual proposal out of Atlanta. If not, I'd suggest peeping the photo gallery before you read this drop or it'll all go over your head. My Inner Accountant says this whole event had to cost upwards of $20,000.[1] The photo gallery had become an internet sensation, and the couple has even been name-dropped by Oprah. The question being posed by my guests is "how much is too damn much for a marriage proposal?".[2] I know this isn't the typical AB.com topic, but ride with us on this one and show my guests some love you-know-where. Without further adieu....
NOTE: Check out the photo gallery first, then read the Guest Drop.
---
Robert Gray proposed to his girlfriend Keisha Williams by renting out several suites at the Ritz Carlton Hotel in Atlanta, GA. In each suite, he had friends and family waiting for them where they prayed for the couple throughout the proposal. The suites were decorated with rose petals dipped in gold and lit candles everywhere. It was beautiful. I read somewhere that Robert actually rented out his home and stayed with his sister for months in order to save up for this elaborate proposal. The question was asked of BMWK: "How Much is Too Much for a Proposal?... Did he go to far?"
Her View
My answer to that is NO! When I saw the slide show of the proposal, I almost cried...it was like I could actually feel the emotions from that night...it was beautiful and moving. She must have felt so special to know that Robert planned that special night with her in mind. Every woman deserves to have someone treat her special just like that. And it does not have to be an expensive gesture...but something that shows that careful thought was put into it. My husband tried to propose to me by the water on Old town Alexandria, VA. After a nice dinner, he wanted us to go for a walk along the water and he was going to propose. I say WAS..because the black girl in me ruined that proposal. He could not get me out of the car...no matter how hard he tried. I was tired and I gave him every excuse in the book...like I am tired...it's misty and my hair will get ruined.
Anyway.. we ended up back at his house where he had to improvise. But it was the thought that counted. I was so moved by the fact that he had planned that entire night out.... I felt special. He laughs about it to this day because he could not get me out of that car.
His View
I also almost cried when I saw this... I was thinking what the h#$@ are you doing dropping that money on the proposal!?!? Mannnnnn, use that on the new house or the wedding or the honeymoon or for 50 yard line tickets to see (insert favorite team here). Nah just kidding, I can't fault anyone for what love will make them do because when you find "The One" you're down for whatever. I was on an email thread that talked about this, mostly guys and they were giving him the business for this. Saying he set himself up because now his fiance will expect bigger and better for the wedding but I would have to think he knew what kind of woman he had on his hands (one that would be happy with that big a#$ engagement) because how in the heck can he top that?
Maybe Robert's a mastermind. He knew the publicity it would drum up, every black woman in America has seen these pictures, he's been on TV and in print and now all he has to do is sit back and wait for an offer to come in from BET or TVOne for a televised wedding or even better a reality TV show that covers all costs. Whatever happens the Black and Married With Kids crew wishes them the best of luck. Marriage is good when you're married to the right person.[3]
Question: What do you think? Is there such a thing as going to far for an engagement?
Remember The Ritz [The World-Famous Photo Gallery]
Since The Proposal.com [Gray and Williams' Personal Site]
How romantic! Couple famous after proposal [Atlanta Journal Constitution]
More From BlackAndMarriedWithKids.com
[1] Personally, I don't fault the young fella for how he proposed. Black love is wonderful. We need more Robert Grays and fewer Kwame Kilpatricks.
[2] And just in case you're wondering, AB did it REAL BIG when he proposed to AS. Not BIG meaning expensive, but BIG meaning thought and consideration.
[3] Amen.
Friday, March 28, 2008
AB.com Guest Post: How Much Proposal Is Too Much Proposal!!?!?
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You gotta do what you gotta do. Love is like that.
What people do with their money is their business. It seems extravagant to me, because I've learned you can never plan enough financially for the future. But I also don't have that kind of money to lavish on myself or anyone else. In addition what would have greatly influenced me would be the divorce statistics. At minimum he has less than a 50% chance of making it work. It only seems right that he @ least spends double now for the wedding.
This dude is a cornball ass herb. No way i would be spending $25k just to propose to some chick.
Now, she is going to expect a $100k wedding. This dude got himself into a world of trouble for this hoodrat.
He will want all that money back when he comes home and catches this broad in bed with his frat brother.
Classy. I think it was a hell of a lot of thought and emotion, and I commend him for it.
However, somebody please teach him how to knot a tie! $25,000 ought to cover somebody on the hotel staff straightening that knot.
Jeez, that's a lot of money. And I'm sorry, but all of the women who are like 'it's not the cost that matters' are half-lying. They aren't all geeked over what this dude did JUST because of the sentimentality. This video would not be circulating if my man rented out a couple of these 'pray for us' rooms at the Red Roof Inn, now would they?
I'm a relative newlywed myself (1st anniversary coming up), and if I've learned one thing it's that marriage is the ultimate partnership -- and partners make WISE financial decisions together. If he had put even half that 25K in a mutual fund, their kid would have an Ivy League (or top-tier HBC or whatever) education bought and paid for...
This kind of materialism is a Euro-American madness that too many other folks have caught. I know -- my people (the gaudy-ass Lebanese) have caught it as bad as anyone...
[@ AB - don't mean to inundate here... avoiding work + finding fun new blog = way too many comments at once!]
Cinco...
You can't go into the marriage counting the divorce statistics. If you thinking that way you shouldn't be getting married or better yet spending "any" money on the proposal.
@ cupid
I think it's pretty cool too. I don't think I wouldn't spent $25k, but it's great to see someone putting this kinda effort out.
@ cinco
You raise a good point though. I sure hope these folks are putting in the time and work involved in premarital counseling to prepare themselves for marriage. With all this attention, it would be a damn shame to find out they got divorced 2 years from now.
@ anon
I don't think dude's a "cornball herb". C'mon.
@ spool32
the knot is fashionably crooked.
@ saladin
good to have a new PoV here.
@ cupid
Ditto. Can't come in expecting to fail from the jump.
I'm not really that type of chick. I would have preferred a nice ring, a banging honeymoon and the rest of that change as a downpayment on a brand new crib.
The thought is wonderful..but it really doesn't take all that for me.
(That's not to say that he doesn't need to put in NO EFFORT AT ALL)
I thought it was beautiful! It was a bit much - but who cares when it's their memories and love. I hope I can meet my mate soon....this damn single life!
Good job Ronnie and Lamar! From Your single sis Dede!
i think the thought behind it was great...coulda done the same thing at a holiday inn...womp womp.
i think the thought behind it was great...coulda done the same thing at a holiday inn...womp womp.
It was nice, but he couldn't afford it because he rented out his house to pay for it. So that's a problem, that's why so many people are in trouble now.
Ok, I got this link of the photoslide some months ago in my e-mail from a friend with nothing about who the couple was. I remember sending her a reply if these were a couple from her church. I thought it was a honeymoon suite right after the wedding and now that I found out it was just a proposal, my financial analyst-wired brain can't stomach the decision. He-llo, money is the number one cause of divorce.
Besides, my close friends know I'm very skeptical of lavish proposals as I told them more than once, I would feel the guy is trying to pressure the girl to say "yes!" On bended-knee with heartfelt thoughts and a cool ring is ENOUGH!
I can't believe everyone is so critical. I thought it was a beautiful expression of God's love and black love.
I love that the gentleman included friends and family and prayer. With all that love around them, everyone praying for them and sending them good energy they should be just fine. This was more than an expensive display to impress folk. There was some real, thought and hard work put into this. Homeboy has found a diamond, and he wanted to make certain she knew he appreciated her.
If he has it like that to express his feelings in a lavish manner--more power to him.
And...if this was, say, Jay-Z and Beyonce rather than everyday people you really know nothing about, I'm pretty sure there'd be a little less hating. I'm just saying.....
The part that was so touching was all the family and loved ones gathered to gie their blessings.
As to the cost, well the Ritz in Atlanta looks to be in some need of updating. The ring was gorgeous and is bride to be.
I thought this was awesome and you can't put a price on an expression of love. I cried as I watched.
Rhonda
"I can't believe everyone is so critical. I thought it was a beautiful expression of God's love and black love.
I love that the gentleman included friends and family and prayer. With all that love around them, everyone praying for them and sending them good energy they should be just fine. This was more than an expensive display to impress folk. There was some real, thought and hard work put into this. Homeboy has found a diamond, and he wanted to make certain she knew he appreciated her.
If he has it like that to express his feelings in a lavish manner--more power to him."
I totally agree with this, He involved friends and family to bless this whole proposal, that matters the most.
Too much money! Don't start a gluttonous financial pattern that you can't maintain. Love doesn't have a price tag.
I'm not saying be cheap, but use your head. I just celebrated my second wedding anniversary this week (Sorry, AB for not posting as I should).
Weddings and proposals are for the ladies....let's just get that straight. The Honeymoon is for the dudes! :) Get a nice ring, budget your wedding. Spend a good deal on the honeymoon, and then start your life. $25,000 for a proposal is just trying to impress too hard.
EG
Too much money! Don't start a gluttonous financial pattern that you can't maintain. Love doesn't have a price tag.
I'm not saying be cheap, but use your head. I just celebrated my second wedding anniversary this week (Sorry, AB for not posting as I should).
Weddings and proposals are for the ladies....let's just get that straight. The Honeymoon is for the dudes! :) Get a nice ring, budget your wedding. Spend a good deal on the honeymoon, and then start your life. $25,000 for a proposal is just trying to impress too hard.
EG
Anonymous said...
It was nice, but he couldn't afford it because he rented out his house to pay for it. So that's a problem, that's why so many people are in trouble now.
Sista in MD says...
Please tell the truth today. Now is not the time to be living "Dallas" dreams on a "South Central" budget.
@ebw...
the comments that have said it was probably a little excessive from a financial perspective, didn't say that they could not appreciate the expression of love. love and money are 2 different things; don't get those confused in what people are saying they object to. there are men who i am sure accomplish the same sentiment and love with much less...but hey, let him do what he wants to do. i still think the thought is nice.
How about this angle:
The amount of discipline and sacrifice he displayed to get what he wants is proof that he'll be a good financial provider! If he can throw together cash like this for a proposal, think what he'll do when he needs a down payment on a house.
Well...I read your article first...then I looked at the video. Your comments did not do justice to this couple. I think this was fabulous. Not because of the expense, but because it was well thought out and executed, included family and friends and movingly documented. This is not a Prince Charming fairy tale. This was the real thing. Kudos to Mr. Gray. This was priceless and that is why God has illuminated them and blessed his efforts above and beyond what he could ever ask or think!
Now that I've read the comments...the publicity alone is worth more than $25K.
Just wondering how many of these could have put it down on a house, folks are actually buying their own home or have money saved for their child's education, etc.
Let's keep this in perspective and stop hatin.' Most of ya'll don't even have $25,000 at your disposal to spend on anything!...let alone a sistah.
...believelynch....
Don't go throwing the word "God" on top of a mess. I believe it was God who talked about our responsibility as stewards. And a good steward doesn't extent him/herself financially to put on an excessive public display.
I cry "foul" and "too much." True love doesn't require budget-breaking fanfare.
How less romantic would it have been to execute the same plan with less money... saving the rest for survival in these questionable economic times.
And I would love for somebody to put together a study analyzing the degree of fanfare vs. divorce rate. LOL It seems the Hollywood crowd and folks like Juanita Bynum have explosive starts and firework finishes.
My vote: Cute. Sweet. But excessive (for their financial standing) and possibly the wrong foot to start. I won't even go into the monologue on the way public fanfare sometimes masks underlying issues that get far too real after the honeymoon is over.
PS: Why hasn't the blog been updated since November 2007? Trouble in Rose Petal Paradise already? hehe (Okay, that was just my footnote of cynicism talking).
@ hawa
"Why hasn't the blog been updated since November 2007? Trouble in Rose Petal Paradise already?"
That was just wrong on so many levels. Funny and true, but wrong.
I'll admit, I expected a lot more "this is lovely and what a lucky girl" types of comments here. Some of ya'll are rippin' this poor fella a new one.
Still, I do wish this couple the best, and I hope they're not so swept up in all the hoopla that they aren't doing the right things to prepare themselves to spend the rest of their lives together.
And since we're being petty, I'll state the obvious: dude needs to lose that 80's style non-tapered fro'.
@AB:
The gesture is VERY sweet and she IS a lucky girl. But boo, I'm knocking on 35 and I can do a lot with that loot by making it WORK for me. For my personal taste, it's a might excessive.
And yeah, the 'fro is not player AT ALL.
@AverageBro
"And since we're being petty, I'll state the obvious: dude needs to lose that 80's style non-tapered fro'.
Oh dag. I'm lol at work! I peeped the hair. I figured he had to let it all grow in while sleeping on his relative's floor and saving money for the proposal. He had to do a drive-by shape-up before the big day.
Actually, I am a hopeless romantic (although stealth based on my last post). But I believe in the art of wisdom. These severe economic times call for extreme actions that procedure long-term benefits (and not a short-term PDA).
I won't beat him over the head for the proposal, but at a 30-something with a little life experience under my belt, the momma in me wished he had used that money as a seed.
(Not to mention that he wouldn't feel it with that fro anyway).
Now I would consider myself a romantic brother, more romantic than most, but this is over the top. As someone who has done similar gestures in the past, I can tell you that that brother was thinking just as much about the praise he would get for his grand gesture as he was about how it would make his fiance feel. Trust me this was as much about him as it was about her.
you ever seen that guy who got rejected proposing in the middle of a basketball game @ half court - if not check it out @
www.anythingblack.wordpress.com
its ridiculous.
I would never down someone's idea of a perfect proposal, but I'm alo a practical chick. My mother and father always told me to focus on the marriage, not the proposal or the wedding. That was nice, but not practical for today's rough times...and what will the wedding be like?
His money - his business. He decided to spend his on a lavish proposal and I'm assuming his bride is happy he did that. Me -- I would not have liked it. Beyond the cost, I think a decision to get married is very personal and between the bride and the groom. What if the bride wasn't sure she was ready to be married/engaged to him? I would not want all of the friends/family involved in the "ask" b/c I value my privacy and my private moments. I don't want to feel pressured to give a particular answer bc all the "extras" are looking for that happily ever after ending.
I saw this awhile ago because the photographer has a blog devoted to his work and he does lots of stories about couples getting engaged, married, etc. People seem to lose site of the idea that there were family and friends there to bless the union. I think that is a great thinking - going back to old fashioned way of asking a father for her daughter's hand.
if he saved to do it, more power to him. that means he thought about the cost and didn't just put it on a credit card. And he created a moment that he and his wife and family and friends will cherish. maybe their wedding will be low key since the engagement was extravagant.
It's nice if you want to include family and friends, but not necessary. Perhaps even starting off wrong- taking the position of having other people involved in their business right from the start. In the end they have to live with each other.
As a 23 yr old young man who is still not even looking to be in a committed relationship, let alone get married, I can say that I honestly hope their marriage turns out to be worth all of this. Some of my "sucker for love" mentality, may ooze out in my words, but I really mean no harm or hate. I personally wouldn't go through all this, especially when I'm only making $50,000 a year. Now had this man been a millionaire or something, then I wouldn't have had one bad thing to say.
On the other side, I love...love. I love to see people happy, I love to see strong families, and successful black people. So I give props to the future groom and everyone involved in the planning of that proposal. I have never seen an "average" black man promoted in such a good light, so that was a good thing to see.
Oh yea, great blog you have here. I stumbled upon it while doing my essay on "College Guns on Campus". I'm trying to find articles, or opinions, on why mass shootings don't happen at HBCU's...or have they?
I am a cynic. Let me just start by saying that. I agree with cinco that folx can spend their money the way they want to. But it should really have been a clue to him when he had to rent out his house and move into his sisters house that maybe this proposal had a few holes (i.e. a big financial pothole).
i agree with someone who said that its beautiful to see black love in progress and we definitely need more people (both men and women) who want to give themselves wholeheartedly to a relationship. However, I don't think such an elaborate proposal means he loves her anymore than any of us loves our significant others.
I suppose we are in a time where the cost of romance is too high and the cynic in me says anyone doing all this for a proposal has something going on that ain't kosher.
When I first saw this I just found it to be over the top and ridiculous. While I admired the sentiment I just had to shake my head and the campy-ness of it.
Finally, the cynic in me really really hopes they stay married cause if they break up and this dude happens to want to marry someone else again he's going to have to rent out a palace to satisfy the next chick. I mean imagine the next chick knew about the proposal to the first wife and he tries to propose at a nice restaurant (which is kind of the average proposal situation) she might flip!
I don't know love is a beautiful thing but I think this was just way too much.
Sorry bout the long post.
This entire proposal was gorgeous. If you choose not to spend that kind of money on your proposal, that's your business. It doesn't mean your love is any less real, but don't hate on a positive brother going out of his way to express his love.
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I wonder if she said yes to spare his feelings. It is possible. He risked alot, bringing multiple folks into it, money and feelings. I was one who also thought it was a bit to much. I wonder did they ever get married.
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